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okay so the average age was about nineteen
years old we had people who are

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as young as nine

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and as old as i was which was

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twenty seven or twenty six

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so pretty young

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and you know you don't think like well
for some people so i would be

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know about formal software development right

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they're just they were they were pretty much we need

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and that would be important later

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we had cooled things like swallowed laps

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in those days we used to be able
to take any X program and just

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swallowed in to be the panel so we
had all cries of interesting stuff

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but really fit all these things all these
features and options and so forth it

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really was

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on sustain

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you know and we had

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we had there was a big male that's was
pretty famous and gonna buy havoc

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pennington there's basically it
says we can't keep doing this

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and we have to improve

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and one thing i heard about right is
that just was are rated ready to

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drop us

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you know

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and i say this is like because we're
gonna go about why do we go

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from one point a to point there's a lot
of reasons why people to widen

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we just keep doing what we were doing

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so we were talking about two point

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we were transitioning from

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and immature board group of

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boys and young men

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to

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something more formal right we were growing
up as a project going on was growing

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a we have to care about A P I N B I stability

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we have to

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worry about these things because application developers
are saying well i can depend on this

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it

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it we can do any of this stuff because
you keep changing things

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so

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we really had to get serious and

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do something

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and

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i say that because today than i was a very
conservative project right we don't

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we don't allow for a patch as get extreme

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scrutiny

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so it's not easy to get in and being able to do something

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so i this is sort of the background where we can

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so

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when we will to can own to there was a lot of also

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i mean you know people are change

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they just

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the like and like there be like
what did you do this why do but

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you remove this feature what did you do that right and

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and the thing is that

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what do we knew about can really average back

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what did been

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again tickets consider a range right

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free software was probably young you know and

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we left

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we like a lot of

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things onset we had allowed are can
you need to write our story for us

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right

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so when people you when you see these
gold thread still say you see a

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common theme complaints from people you know what

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such as like every month points was like

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we didn't we didn't and it wouldn't explain to them

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why we change use X

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we managed you can tell the context

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we don't really give them anything to really

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hold on to so

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we allow people to write our story
for us and we just went on you

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see

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whole bunch of complaints and you know it
didn't matter that was free software back

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that we all that everybody was yell that
it was a bizarre model right that's

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what you're doing

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so

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question is if you look back we
said could we have done better

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and

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i don't know i don't know the answer
for that i don't think we could

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have done better

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like i said a three to is relatively unheard

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for that all that thank you many management

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we don't really do that

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and so

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we just sort of let it pass and

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do whatever you need to do

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but then

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after ten years of development

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brno three came along

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and it was a different well

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but when we plan this really is

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we spend an enormous amount of time and this is

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we had videos we had great release
notes i mean we never did a that

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you know to i mean we never had the kind
of release notes were doing

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today arguably was by one of the best
plan releases we did not want

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what happened at we don't want that

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four point thing but

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i knew i knew that it was gonna be

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hard just based on what happened what one or two point

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because we really did change a lot of things right

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and

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for me personally i didn't want anybody to write our story

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i didn't

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think

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we needed to be ready

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when the onslaught occur

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so

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initial reactions

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was not exactly what

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wasn't was less than spectacular right
i mean i think we could summon up to

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that

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the unholy mess that is be known three

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which was done by

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we used for about

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and

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can we really blame that right

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we change me change interactions completely

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we the interface is change completely we do niemann

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there's nothing there was no bridge between
be known to dig around three

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how did one

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go from one to the other especially
if you've spent ten years on a our

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work flow

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and suddenly you want to this so it's not it's not always

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it was not going to be so that

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just because people had invested so
much time on this on the desktop

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so

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understandably

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there was a lot of outrage

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i mean a lot of outrage

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and we had a probably must

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so

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that's it can see

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it's a different world out there right
now trying to gonna two days you have

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social wouldn't have to face but we didn't have

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a whole any we have a lot we have
footer whitman have a lot of

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things

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and

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things can go bad news travels fast

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bad news travels faster

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ugly news travels even faster than that

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so social really increases proliferation

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and then you get you get this bad
news you know this is the last

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one that i meander you heard that joke many times

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or maybe were staring into the abyss

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there is there is

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the there's all the stuff and then you
know the news media picks it up

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and it just goes on and on a not and the whole point is

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how do you control all those you know
and how do you control and make

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sure that

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we're always maintaining are best face forward

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so i which is required a pretty they
have these for damage control

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and trying to make sure we change the conversation

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so that's really the importance of engaging

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it's important and greater kidder critics

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explain our motivations

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and the design and

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when we engage

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barbora communicating are intact right

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we're saying this is why we're doing something

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if somebody complains about the lack of feature
or real terminal is solely not without

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transfers you dear god why

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it's not it's because

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the specific reasons

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and you know a lot some of that is because
of not enough resources whatever

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it is but if we don't challenge that
then we fall into the same thing

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right we're always talking about remove feature well
we don't or remove transparency see they're

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doing it again

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and you have to be

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always out there and

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when you do

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when you do go out there and you challenge your critics

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they will see grouchy

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i have turned i had done is many times
somebody anybody on the internet can

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sit there and

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saves whatever battle there

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if you come up there and you tell them that's not sure

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i work are gonna

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that's not true and they will back down

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it has happened many times be conversation changes

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and when the conversation changes you control the conversation
you control the conversation and you

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change the conversation

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and that is one of the great benefits of engagement

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because we are able to do

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that kind of thing it's actually quite
rewarding when you can change minds

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so

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this

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is when you shouldn't do

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don't engage don't sit around or
stick your head in the same

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you don't you don't wanna do that

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because if you don't but something else
writes it your story for you again it's

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all about writing the story you don't wanna
tell let somebody else saying this is

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what can and stands for

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this is what they do we don't want that all

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so don't stick your hands and don't

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don't disengage

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you know when three pornos come out there
was no developers out there now there's

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a lot of the reasons for that and that
was and they had just finished

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report out there trying to stabilisation
but there was no apparatus

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to

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hold all those creepy

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critiquing are criticising right

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so

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we had

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we have to do a lot of a lot of engagement i mean there and

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there is our apparatus we have lots of high
profile people yet used or about

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that in the one are you have all these
people who have this year to

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the media complaining

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and

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we didn't really explain ourselves today

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so

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engage and

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was slow

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we start off very slow

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we didn't we didn't have any mechanism to

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talk about engagement in a tackle but
we didn't have any mechanism to

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to

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show what we're doing right we had we
had really snows we had all those

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great stuff about how cool everything was

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but

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we didn't say why

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why don't we do this

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we didn't wouldn't do any that's that

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and when usa what was the what was the reason why we had

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you know hotspots or things like
that what was the reason for all

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so where was where was the explanation

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for that

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and so

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that's where

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things goes wrong right and

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and you don't and you lose track of the conversation

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so which really was time to get

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serious right

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we need to pull together

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our communication channels and

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really engage the community right so we did
a number things we created the facebook

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profile we created a tutor account we did a google plus

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we did everything we could to make sure
that we can control the message

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we consolidated begin on name space on I
R C we controlled entire signal space

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nobody can create a good on channel without are say so

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and

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you know

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i took on a lot

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kernel developers picks like that

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just happened my bad like that

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i'd being game being employed that open source
technology centre i also have to have

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i also have a lock from developers and
X developers and approach stick so you

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why will go plus pages probably filled with flames

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but you know

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and i took it even further i actually searched

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eighteen we have tag you know

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engage them even i didn't did pass so
i wasn't possible and that's all i

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was impressed i went through and i found
anybody i can any wild eyed person

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on the internet i mean you know because
it was worth it i went to

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like read it and i would to read slashdot whatever it was

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and you know i put myself out there
because i need to make sure that

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we we're putting are best face forward
and we are communicating

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so

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how the how that there

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right

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i guess people to order based

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but the google plus can is been pretty good

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and even on L W N same thing

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it can be really rewarding and you can change minds

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and you and if even that they're not
you know they're upset with you know

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whatever it is

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you have built a reputation for yourself

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so your own personal reputation goes up

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and people will look at user trustworthy resource

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for anything related to good know or just as a person

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so

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that's

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and

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and so and on the other the other
common want to make was that you

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know at this point

273
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it's just a self sustaining

274
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so we could have a bad news day

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and we could see comments where we will
actually see people say that why like

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about three what's wrong with it so

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before we didn't have any way in like
in ago today's happy to these people

278
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saying at it was silence now i have people's challenging

279
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well i'm the people i i'm not you're doing
that other people are doing that

280
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and you know

281
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it's great and we have forums now we
have that we will plus pages are

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have been on developers who are ford
a rubber so going out there has been

283
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questions even writing extensions sample extensions
things like that is all huge positive things and

284
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i think i think

285
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despite whatever who are articles you see
on planet or whatever it is you know

286
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we're

287
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we're turning the corner this

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you know returning the corner

289
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so the question is

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is our job

291
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and

292
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that's an interesting question

293
00:17:57,640 --> 00:18:02,860
and i'm gonna say no i think not by a long shot we have a

294
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lot of work to go into because it's a sustaining
model continue moderate you're always

295
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gonna have to do that because always gonna
be amiss some misconception or something

296
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so

297
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so it's really important we continue to engage
your own community our that our committee

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but

299
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what can be found out from disaster the posters
that we also they need to

300
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do outreach to our internally right

301
00:18:29,090 --> 00:18:32,670
there are a lot of people who are maybe
not sure about where we're going

302
00:18:32,670 --> 00:18:36,280
or what for doing and we should really

303
00:18:36,790 --> 00:18:39,080
have our conversation within ourselves

304
00:18:39,500 --> 00:18:42,020
so that we don't have posted talks about

305
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the last one a core

306
00:18:45,590 --> 00:18:50,320
this or any other thing where people
are not sure we should read if we

307
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:54,750
they should come to us and that's a that's
a role that really managers to

308
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be able to have someone to go to

309
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to talk about doubts

310
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instead of taking into the airways

311
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right so

312
00:19:07,820 --> 00:19:12,070
so we need to that's something we
need to work we need to be able

313
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to do community involvement internal

314
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but

315
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so drinking we might

316
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i guess the number

317
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different case you know a lot of people
don't do what i do which is

318
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will and engage people aggressively and

319
00:19:36,030 --> 00:19:41,510
finding fights and here is probably
are used a stipulate and good i was

320
00:19:43,110 --> 00:19:47,330
well the thing to do is sort of a way to pass time and now

321
00:19:47,330 --> 00:19:49,850
we have a bit of scotch

322
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and whatnot

323
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good times right good times so

324
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so

325
00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,830
but they're gonna do it right there that
there's something is or if you're an

326
00:20:04,830 --> 00:20:07,990
introvert you probably the support not something free

327
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:14,360
and if you're sensitive or you lose your
temper a lot usually lose bought another

328
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thing for you

329
00:20:16,790 --> 00:20:18,540
you're a measure requires patience

330
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:20,690
and i mean a lot of patience

331
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it also requires repeating yourself

332
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absolutely

333
00:20:25,330 --> 00:20:28,760
you can have the you can have an argument
you can repeat the same thing

334
00:20:28,760 --> 00:20:32,680
over there is always something
really interesting about that

335
00:20:33,020 --> 00:20:36,780
because if you say it and you say in the soothing voice

336
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they actually do

337
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stop complaining

338
00:20:41,340 --> 00:20:41,430
i

339
00:20:42,050 --> 00:20:47,610
and they back up and sort of like okay

340
00:20:48,760 --> 00:20:52,700
and they will try what you tried everything like green exit

341
00:20:53,270 --> 00:20:54,210
the same thing

342
00:20:55,720 --> 00:21:00,960
create a i think i have actually is that so

343
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but the other thing is obviously part

344
00:21:05,210 --> 00:21:07,430
no matter how ugly yes

345
00:21:08,080 --> 00:21:13,910
be possible and you'll get to say that the previous
screen i showed but people

346
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say the argument compliments is precisely that
if you're keeping a positive it or track

347
00:21:20,090 --> 00:21:24,270
the other person you actually get results

348
00:21:27,290 --> 00:21:29,440
so a couple times be sincere

349
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don't

350
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yes

351
00:21:33,630 --> 00:21:37,350
in the and i know that some you
know you need to be across a

352
00:21:37,350 --> 00:21:41,020
cheerleader it something socks and you agree you say

353
00:21:41,950 --> 00:21:43,280
i agree it sucks

354
00:21:43,940 --> 00:21:46,330
people will believe you're always going to be defensive

355
00:21:47,750 --> 00:21:48,330
so

356
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:56,320
so it's a if you don't this if you
agree i agree you're right it's

357
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:57,360
something we need to work on

358
00:21:58,300 --> 00:21:59,700
let me let me get back

359
00:22:02,060 --> 00:22:03,460
it was about patience

360
00:22:04,280 --> 00:22:06,880
D free software person

361
00:22:08,030 --> 00:22:09,360
it's very emotional based

362
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:11,790
they are

363
00:22:13,680 --> 00:22:15,900
passion is a double edge sword

364
00:22:16,380 --> 00:22:17,440
so

365
00:22:18,060 --> 00:22:20,530
the passion that drives people to write code

366
00:22:21,300 --> 00:22:23,670
also dies and to be email

367
00:22:24,880 --> 00:22:32,230
and it is it is that it's a fight
a because they will blabber about

368
00:22:32,230 --> 00:22:33,380
think so again

369
00:22:34,050 --> 00:22:38,780
you gotta you gotta keep saying this
is what we do it this is how

370
00:22:38,780 --> 00:22:43,150
we doing this is why we doing you
gotta have to repeat yourself and

371
00:22:43,590 --> 00:22:44,140
so

372
00:22:45,300 --> 00:22:47,280
i'm kind of repeating myself here and there but

373
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you do need to keep positive and it is gonna be worthwhile

374
00:22:54,080 --> 00:22:55,790
the other important point is

375
00:22:57,470 --> 00:23:01,010
and this is something to learn from marketing
i used when i was in college

376
00:23:01,010 --> 00:23:03,480
i was actually part of a marketing

377
00:23:03,920 --> 00:23:06,130
college group and we were selling

378
00:23:06,960 --> 00:23:09,480
that we have the me stuff that we were

379
00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:12,310
i providing

380
00:23:12,840 --> 00:23:17,460
i opportunity companies to get interns from other countries

381
00:23:17,930 --> 00:23:18,950
and what things

382
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,780
i think that there's some training when things
you go through is that we're marketing

383
00:23:24,780 --> 00:23:27,410
somebody you need to get something

384
00:23:28,560 --> 00:23:32,020
anything head paper phone number

385
00:23:32,620 --> 00:23:33,290
whatever

386
00:23:34,480 --> 00:23:37,420
so i'm applying that principle to complainers

387
00:23:38,430 --> 00:23:43,380
it somebody complains something i can why
we're doing this way so the file but

388
00:23:44,690 --> 00:23:47,660
help the bottle but do it can to get

389
00:23:48,250 --> 00:23:49,570
then to invest

390
00:23:49,950 --> 00:23:52,360
and the project some way some shape where for

391
00:23:52,960 --> 00:23:56,040
i did i did this to kernel develop this

392
00:23:57,960 --> 00:24:02,340
they start complaining and actually file but
it's very easy to complain but if you

393
00:24:02,340 --> 00:24:05,490
can get them to actually file and do something

394
00:24:05,980 --> 00:24:06,880
big way

395
00:24:07,320 --> 00:24:07,950
big way

396
00:24:08,750 --> 00:24:09,460
and

397
00:24:11,390 --> 00:24:15,730
be could definitely in we want to do
that we wanna turn complacent to

398
00:24:16,910 --> 00:24:20,610
in to do is if they don't like the direction of the project

399
00:24:21,200 --> 00:24:23,970
get an ball jointed a foundation

400
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:25,190
do something

401
00:24:25,980 --> 00:24:29,460
because only then you're gonna have a voice
if you have a voice then you

402
00:24:29,460 --> 00:24:30,580
have a way to change

403
00:24:32,260 --> 00:24:32,880
so

404
00:24:33,430 --> 00:24:37,750
that's how i've always approach people who complain is that

405
00:24:38,420 --> 00:24:41,510
well you can't you can't complain

406
00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:44,670
and then not invest time

407
00:24:45,130 --> 00:24:47,150
that you don't get anything for free

408
00:24:50,980 --> 00:24:53,550
so in the end it's a mixed bag

409
00:24:54,730 --> 00:24:59,160
where they change their minds are
not at least to remember you

410
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:01,530
and

411
00:25:04,070 --> 00:25:09,160
really when you remember you then you can always
restart the conversation elation because

412
00:25:09,820 --> 00:25:11,390
nothing stays the same

413
00:25:11,990 --> 00:25:17,420
the same thing happened one point you were
many people that were stripe stabilised

414
00:25:18,400 --> 00:25:19,440
people come back

415
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:21,120
so our works

416
00:25:22,190 --> 00:25:26,930
everything nothing a static when people
say i'm done jumper just one to katie

417
00:25:27,680 --> 00:25:29,470
there we like there will be

418
00:25:30,190 --> 00:25:31,990
katie will do something like come back

419
00:25:33,290 --> 00:25:35,890
sorry does like the idea tell you that

420
00:25:38,070 --> 00:25:40,340
the free stuff or animals or emotional first

421
00:25:43,120 --> 00:25:45,220
couple yes

422
00:25:46,710 --> 00:25:49,660
i want people to go out there and then

423
00:25:50,840 --> 00:25:53,680
do can really measure it and then speaker to go foundation

424
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:57,160
you don't

425
00:25:57,660 --> 00:26:00,820
really people or experience are people who kindled

426
00:26:01,850 --> 00:26:03,490
be part of the project

427
00:26:04,770 --> 00:26:07,430
because you are at that point representing you know

428
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,480
and it would be

429
00:26:09,970 --> 00:26:10,900
better

430
00:26:11,420 --> 00:26:17,730
if you had somebody who's done this before
and you know you don't actually put

431
00:26:17,730 --> 00:26:18,530
your foot in your mouth

432
00:26:19,970 --> 00:26:21,210
unintended

433
00:26:22,700 --> 00:26:27,490
so if you're into a problem we should
contact me or somewhere else on the

434
00:26:27,490 --> 00:26:28,280
marketing team

435
00:26:29,990 --> 00:26:30,460
but

436
00:26:31,460 --> 00:26:32,690
go out there engage

437
00:26:33,910 --> 00:26:36,570
so this is pretty much a lot had for my top

438
00:26:37,310 --> 00:26:41,020
i can have some questions

439
00:26:43,270 --> 00:26:44,330
by

440
00:26:49,450 --> 00:26:56,860
hi and it's not exactly question is mom
like it can into just about complete

441
00:26:56,860 --> 00:27:01,260
to say now i would like to say that
i think that is important to

442
00:27:01,260 --> 00:27:07,820
talk about complaints about them the fact that
sometimes do something that is not very

443
00:27:07,820 --> 00:27:15,200
clear a how do you see how you
say sorry i think that is very

444
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:20,760
important to try to communicate to where
we're going and the and the and try

445
00:27:20,760 --> 00:27:28,060
to and to make the in the people
to be trust to trust a while

446
00:27:28,060 --> 00:27:33,810
the developer as a doing a for example have
them this conversation on some years

447
00:27:33,810 --> 00:27:40,860
ago one and don't really in a already
written believe that just read the do

448
00:27:40,860 --> 00:27:45,740
that and some people to all about this
now is doesn't work of them to

449
00:27:45,740 --> 00:27:51,050
was that the number but not a to say
okay and you had some questions

450
00:27:51,050 --> 00:27:57,400
to ask and so when people come from
normal to me what can you i

451
00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:02,840
write for this and for that the from this
one a please the passion readjusting

452
00:28:02,840 --> 00:28:08,330
the beginning so know be passion i
ask in the don't ask sorry and the

453
00:28:08,330 --> 00:28:13,940
weight that the developer make their work so
i think that's very important am trying

454
00:28:13,940 --> 00:28:20,860
to make the people understand that not everything
would be done immediately so to have

455
00:28:20,860 --> 00:28:23,910
trust in the community and this is this is good

456
00:28:25,180 --> 00:28:25,510
right

457
00:28:32,110 --> 00:28:36,700
that for the first or we will cover about our approach

458
00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:44,730
those exactly what part is to be brushed
for i think a lot there are

459
00:28:44,730 --> 00:28:48,200
saying here is precisely that is

460
00:28:49,590 --> 00:28:52,420
that's where the carriers as is don't put your for

461
00:28:53,360 --> 00:28:54,860
right you're talking because

462
00:28:55,580 --> 00:28:58,690
what's your hope you know you should be fresh

463
00:28:59,240 --> 00:29:01,650
because you're older our reputation

464
00:29:02,310 --> 00:29:03,330
in your as

465
00:29:03,710 --> 00:29:07,080
so people will judge you that

466
00:29:09,940 --> 00:29:17,200
when developers communicate you know i've seen
i've seen things that make me cringe so

467
00:29:17,200 --> 00:29:22,600
there was no you'll see you'll see you
know developers going out of it kernel

468
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:29,030
developers and it's like my god okay
and for them it's just like what in

469
00:29:29,030 --> 00:29:35,120
was in the going to days it's just this bright they and i

470
00:29:37,050 --> 00:29:43,050
i don't try i mean i jabbed and
then just try to keep it simple

471
00:29:43,050 --> 00:29:45,120
but it's not always

472
00:29:45,910 --> 00:29:50,120
possible right this is the same kind
of thing with the okay M L and

473
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:55,590
all that it's just it's just so something
but the extra but i don't really

474
00:29:55,590 --> 00:30:00,770
like i guess grows probably are just
and going out of that's just really

475
00:30:01,440 --> 00:30:05,720
not the way to behave at least certainly not for our side

476
00:30:09,950 --> 00:30:10,840
the questions

477
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,940
right next regarding right i know