okay so the average age was about nineteen years old we had people who are as young as nine and as old as i was which was twenty seven or twenty six so pretty young and you know you don't think like well for some people so i would be know about formal software development right they're just they were they were pretty much we need and that would be important later we had cooled things like swallowed laps in those days we used to be able to take any X program and just swallowed in to be the panel so we had all cries of interesting stuff but really fit all these things all these features and options and so forth it really was on sustain you know and we had we had there was a big male that's was pretty famous and gonna buy havoc pennington there's basically it says we can't keep doing this and we have to improve and one thing i heard about right is that just was are rated ready to drop us you know and i say this is like because we're gonna go about why do we go from one point a to point there's a lot of reasons why people to widen we just keep doing what we were doing so we were talking about two point we were transitioning from and immature board group of boys and young men to something more formal right we were growing up as a project going on was growing a we have to care about A P I N B I stability we have to worry about these things because application developers are saying well i can depend on this it it we can do any of this stuff because you keep changing things so we really had to get serious and do something and i say that because today than i was a very conservative project right we don't we don't allow for a patch as get extreme scrutiny so it's not easy to get in and being able to do something so i this is sort of the background where we can so when we will to can own to there was a lot of also i mean you know people are change they just the like and like there be like what did you do this why do but you remove this feature what did you do that right and and the thing is that what do we knew about can really average back what did been again tickets consider a range right free software was probably young you know and we left we like a lot of things onset we had allowed are can you need to write our story for us right so when people you when you see these gold thread still say you see a common theme complaints from people you know what such as like every month points was like we didn't we didn't and it wouldn't explain to them why we change use X we managed you can tell the context we don't really give them anything to really hold on to so we allow people to write our story for us and we just went on you see whole bunch of complaints and you know it didn't matter that was free software back that we all that everybody was yell that it was a bizarre model right that's what you're doing so question is if you look back we said could we have done better and i don't know i don't know the answer for that i don't think we could have done better like i said a three to is relatively unheard for that all that thank you many management we don't really do that and so we just sort of let it pass and do whatever you need to do but then after ten years of development brno three came along and it was a different well but when we plan this really is we spend an enormous amount of time and this is we had videos we had great release notes i mean we never did a that you know to i mean we never had the kind of release notes were doing today arguably was by one of the best plan releases we did not want what happened at we don't want that four point thing but i knew i knew that it was gonna be hard just based on what happened what one or two point because we really did change a lot of things right and for me personally i didn't want anybody to write our story i didn't think we needed to be ready when the onslaught occur so initial reactions was not exactly what wasn't was less than spectacular right i mean i think we could summon up to that the unholy mess that is be known three which was done by we used for about and can we really blame that right we change me change interactions completely we the interface is change completely we do niemann there's nothing there was no bridge between be known to dig around three how did one go from one to the other especially if you've spent ten years on a our work flow and suddenly you want to this so it's not it's not always it was not going to be so that just because people had invested so much time on this on the desktop so understandably there was a lot of outrage i mean a lot of outrage and we had a probably must so that's it can see it's a different world out there right now trying to gonna two days you have social wouldn't have to face but we didn't have a whole any we have a lot we have footer whitman have a lot of things and things can go bad news travels fast bad news travels faster ugly news travels even faster than that so social really increases proliferation and then you get you get this bad news you know this is the last one that i meander you heard that joke many times or maybe were staring into the abyss there is there is the there's all the stuff and then you know the news media picks it up and it just goes on and on a not and the whole point is how do you control all those you know and how do you control and make sure that we're always maintaining are best face forward so i which is required a pretty they have these for damage control and trying to make sure we change the conversation so that's really the importance of engaging it's important and greater kidder critics explain our motivations and the design and when we engage barbora communicating are intact right we're saying this is why we're doing something if somebody complains about the lack of feature or real terminal is solely not without transfers you dear god why it's not it's because the specific reasons and you know a lot some of that is because of not enough resources whatever it is but if we don't challenge that then we fall into the same thing right we're always talking about remove feature well we don't or remove transparency see they're doing it again and you have to be always out there and when you do when you do go out there and you challenge your critics they will see grouchy i have turned i had done is many times somebody anybody on the internet can sit there and saves whatever battle there if you come up there and you tell them that's not sure i work are gonna that's not true and they will back down it has happened many times be conversation changes and when the conversation changes you control the conversation you control the conversation and you change the conversation and that is one of the great benefits of engagement because we are able to do that kind of thing it's actually quite rewarding when you can change minds so this is when you shouldn't do don't engage don't sit around or stick your head in the same you don't you don't wanna do that because if you don't but something else writes it your story for you again it's all about writing the story you don't wanna tell let somebody else saying this is what can and stands for this is what they do we don't want that all so don't stick your hands and don't don't disengage you know when three pornos come out there was no developers out there now there's a lot of the reasons for that and that was and they had just finished report out there trying to stabilisation but there was no apparatus to hold all those creepy critiquing are criticising right so we had we have to do a lot of a lot of engagement i mean there and there is our apparatus we have lots of high profile people yet used or about that in the one are you have all these people who have this year to the media complaining and we didn't really explain ourselves today so engage and was slow we start off very slow we didn't we didn't have any mechanism to talk about engagement in a tackle but we didn't have any mechanism to to show what we're doing right we had we had really snows we had all those great stuff about how cool everything was but we didn't say why why don't we do this we didn't wouldn't do any that's that and when usa what was the what was the reason why we had you know hotspots or things like that what was the reason for all so where was where was the explanation for that and so that's where things goes wrong right and and you don't and you lose track of the conversation so which really was time to get serious right we need to pull together our communication channels and really engage the community right so we did a number things we created the facebook profile we created a tutor account we did a google plus we did everything we could to make sure that we can control the message we consolidated begin on name space on I R C we controlled entire signal space nobody can create a good on channel without are say so and you know i took on a lot kernel developers picks like that just happened my bad like that i'd being game being employed that open source technology centre i also have to have i also have a lock from developers and X developers and approach stick so you why will go plus pages probably filled with flames but you know and i took it even further i actually searched eighteen we have tag you know engage them even i didn't did pass so i wasn't possible and that's all i was impressed i went through and i found anybody i can any wild eyed person on the internet i mean you know because it was worth it i went to like read it and i would to read slashdot whatever it was and you know i put myself out there because i need to make sure that we we're putting are best face forward and we are communicating so how the how that there right i guess people to order based but the google plus can is been pretty good and even on L W N same thing it can be really rewarding and you can change minds and you and if even that they're not you know they're upset with you know whatever it is you have built a reputation for yourself so your own personal reputation goes up and people will look at user trustworthy resource for anything related to good know or just as a person so that's and and so and on the other the other common want to make was that you know at this point it's just a self sustaining so we could have a bad news day and we could see comments where we will actually see people say that why like about three what's wrong with it so before we didn't have any way in like in ago today's happy to these people saying at it was silence now i have people's challenging well i'm the people i i'm not you're doing that other people are doing that and you know it's great and we have forums now we have that we will plus pages are have been on developers who are ford a rubber so going out there has been questions even writing extensions sample extensions things like that is all huge positive things and i think i think despite whatever who are articles you see on planet or whatever it is you know we're we're turning the corner this you know returning the corner so the question is is our job and that's an interesting question and i'm gonna say no i think not by a long shot we have a lot of work to go into because it's a sustaining model continue moderate you're always gonna have to do that because always gonna be amiss some misconception or something so so it's really important we continue to engage your own community our that our committee but what can be found out from disaster the posters that we also they need to do outreach to our internally right there are a lot of people who are maybe not sure about where we're going or what for doing and we should really have our conversation within ourselves so that we don't have posted talks about the last one a core this or any other thing where people are not sure we should read if we they should come to us and that's a that's a role that really managers to be able to have someone to go to to talk about doubts instead of taking into the airways right so so we need to that's something we need to work we need to be able to do community involvement internal but so drinking we might i guess the number different case you know a lot of people don't do what i do which is will and engage people aggressively and finding fights and here is probably are used a stipulate and good i was well the thing to do is sort of a way to pass time and now we have a bit of scotch and whatnot good times right good times so so but they're gonna do it right there that there's something is or if you're an introvert you probably the support not something free and if you're sensitive or you lose your temper a lot usually lose bought another thing for you you're a measure requires patience and i mean a lot of patience it also requires repeating yourself absolutely you can have the you can have an argument you can repeat the same thing over there is always something really interesting about that because if you say it and you say in the soothing voice they actually do stop complaining i and they back up and sort of like okay and they will try what you tried everything like green exit the same thing create a i think i have actually is that so but the other thing is obviously part no matter how ugly yes be possible and you'll get to say that the previous screen i showed but people say the argument compliments is precisely that if you're keeping a positive it or track the other person you actually get results so a couple times be sincere don't yes in the and i know that some you know you need to be across a cheerleader it something socks and you agree you say i agree it sucks people will believe you're always going to be defensive so so it's a if you don't this if you agree i agree you're right it's something we need to work on let me let me get back it was about patience D free software person it's very emotional based they are passion is a double edge sword so the passion that drives people to write code also dies and to be email and it is it is that it's a fight a because they will blabber about think so again you gotta you gotta keep saying this is what we do it this is how we doing this is why we doing you gotta have to repeat yourself and so i'm kind of repeating myself here and there but you do need to keep positive and it is gonna be worthwhile the other important point is and this is something to learn from marketing i used when i was in college i was actually part of a marketing college group and we were selling that we have the me stuff that we were i providing i opportunity companies to get interns from other countries and what things i think that there's some training when things you go through is that we're marketing somebody you need to get something anything head paper phone number whatever so i'm applying that principle to complainers it somebody complains something i can why we're doing this way so the file but help the bottle but do it can to get then to invest and the project some way some shape where for i did i did this to kernel develop this they start complaining and actually file but it's very easy to complain but if you can get them to actually file and do something big way big way and be could definitely in we want to do that we wanna turn complacent to in to do is if they don't like the direction of the project get an ball jointed a foundation do something because only then you're gonna have a voice if you have a voice then you have a way to change so that's how i've always approach people who complain is that well you can't you can't complain and then not invest time that you don't get anything for free so in the end it's a mixed bag where they change their minds are not at least to remember you and really when you remember you then you can always restart the conversation elation because nothing stays the same the same thing happened one point you were many people that were stripe stabilised people come back so our works everything nothing a static when people say i'm done jumper just one to katie there we like there will be katie will do something like come back sorry does like the idea tell you that the free stuff or animals or emotional first couple yes i want people to go out there and then do can really measure it and then speaker to go foundation you don't really people or experience are people who kindled be part of the project because you are at that point representing you know and it would be better if you had somebody who's done this before and you know you don't actually put your foot in your mouth unintended so if you're into a problem we should contact me or somewhere else on the marketing team but go out there engage so this is pretty much a lot had for my top i can have some questions by hi and it's not exactly question is mom like it can into just about complete to say now i would like to say that i think that is important to talk about complaints about them the fact that sometimes do something that is not very clear a how do you see how you say sorry i think that is very important to try to communicate to where we're going and the and the and try to and to make the in the people to be trust to trust a while the developer as a doing a for example have them this conversation on some years ago one and don't really in a already written believe that just read the do that and some people to all about this now is doesn't work of them to was that the number but not a to say okay and you had some questions to ask and so when people come from normal to me what can you i write for this and for that the from this one a please the passion readjusting the beginning so know be passion i ask in the don't ask sorry and the weight that the developer make their work so i think that's very important am trying to make the people understand that not everything would be done immediately so to have trust in the community and this is this is good right that for the first or we will cover about our approach those exactly what part is to be brushed for i think a lot there are saying here is precisely that is that's where the carriers as is don't put your for right you're talking because what's your hope you know you should be fresh because you're older our reputation in your as so people will judge you that when developers communicate you know i've seen i've seen things that make me cringe so there was no you'll see you'll see you know developers going out of it kernel developers and it's like my god okay and for them it's just like what in was in the going to days it's just this bright they and i i don't try i mean i jabbed and then just try to keep it simple but it's not always possible right this is the same kind of thing with the okay M L and all that it's just it's just so something but the extra but i don't really like i guess grows probably are just and going out of that's just really not the way to behave at least certainly not for our side the questions right next regarding right i know