so this is this for yes
about
the future of G D case where we want to go we had a
i first
in april
well we sit down and natalie botched all the also believe it is that the
fee is introduced last all
but also talk about the future and how we see
things going
i know presenting my ideas for a i mean things are saying i've presented and
everybody else so far nobody can play i hope this will change in this tall
or develop
but
so for wider "'cause" that's consumption is what we mean
where we want to go
in the future and how
things will be able next year
ideas and G T K is going to
first talk about technical things like what features do we want to G T K
next
that about practical i called practical because it didn't find a better word yes what
kind of two teams G T K going to be
is there is a difference between huge and H T M L
and G T K and release other to get
that's all briefly about G T K three buttons G T K two
and
the question might lose every well is that gonna but T K for it when
it's gonna be that
and what's it gonna be about
so technical
is it all this is not a road map
this is what we think we want to do next so all the things that
presents here a still so abstract
that we don't know how they will look and code and we don't even know
if
a year from now you'll still one that this
but for now we want
the first one is his classes
if you wear it demanded store
this morning he introduced his ideas away he sees things or what so i probably
shouldn't say much more about it
i agree with that
go for
but that the general thing is we want to have the features that about that
and be able to use that not just
make application developers able to use them from inside G T K application we also
want to use them
to create a widgets
have a look like
one which is
this is
part of what emails that animal you know with P that we quiet
be it is the idea to you from the kind of way when you draw
widget
G T K you just have a draw function that draws everything like modifies a
bunch of variables that draws this that modifies the variables again and also that by
the variables again of that
so you don't know
and you think about what you just roll at you if you want to go
to is the mouse over this stuff but i do the arrow that's that you
have to compute that us alvin S gets really complicated
so is that we want to have actors
ideally class or active
that
we can use it is that
you around and that do all this stuff automatically for
and that should make it easy to write complex which is with lots of things
that you could move rather than screen and still try easily of them out as
is
on a lot of what i
it also makes it easy for you guys just i really because we want to
make our actors conform to the C S stuff but we right
previews yes
so that you can lend
at borders to them that patty model
so for sizes for every single out
again
great if we had nobody writing and which seriously thinking about that we have
i have a proper experimented with it
i'm cat program
just use our input system is still essentially the egg synthesis the
so when you want to handle something with the mouse that is more complicated than
about press or
pressing to but a double take
like even the long press you have to
track time and at a time out somewhere and no wonder what happens and you
need to remove the time out that you would widget gets hidden or
the mouse moves and things like that a really complicated
and for common interactions that people do but with the mouse and even with touch
like imagine what you need to do you want to have a to think guess
white that you need to track
touchdown events for one finger in for the other thing and then you need to
check if they move of the same speed in the same direction and
the you if one of the thing is leaves this screen do you that make
that we do that of all the gesture or not at all these complicated stuff
i need to think about it makes it really complicated
to
to track all these complicated gestures that
i so simple on these other
devices you
wouldn't want to do that manually on every which is so we want to have
objects that you can just trying to say
do you please have a
just
and i will take just it is everything and you just connected to your button
and when somebody clicks on it you will get a this gesture was just done
signal and that's it
on top of that we want to have that with which is that one which
is handling at the next which it can because
you want to do scrolling on top of other widgets then that's probably needs to
happen so that's a bunch of complicated stuff
that we seriously thinking about that we have
i was gonna actually is ill i was still
alice's be working on that
i am working on the think that use this looking at it and excess the
looking at it i've talked to and about that we all have ideas of how
that might or might not well
but ideally it should be so simple to just say
this widget is listening to slide to the left or right tell me whether what
that you can use what stuff like swap to the lexus
split to the next day
there is are
technical long term goals
it's still a lot of work so
stuff but stuff especially happening moving into the right direction
also if anybody wants to comment what really i guess
talk about it with me on I C I
people experimenting with this crazy stuff give me new ideas gives other people you it
is it sometimes something turns out very simple
we just put strategies E K O
so
the practical part of the talk is
i gave i gave at all asking a bunch of questions about what G T
K's about two years ago
at
boston some
to
since then i've talked to many people about what they think so than what i
think is reasonable
and
compiled
and this to these are not necessarily the ounces i
so don't shouted neva be stupid person because i wanted that way i think there
is a beyond says that a car wreck on system questions that
and i want to put them out because i think you use there's a guide
ins of how we want to look at to develop and how we want
to make things happen like if somebody
things G T K should do this
i want to tell them no i don't think there is the right thing because
because of this practical decisions that we make
first one is
i listen back and support
how many back as do we support what kind of operating systems do we support
how well do we support
do we can have it every feature that we add is available on every operating
system and back and we use all
or do we
how do we do
so i think it's
we have one primary
thing back and we support
and then in this case please G okay back and apparently this is X eleven
and the future
that will most likely waylon
we have a bunch of have a beckons but the other back-ends have to make
work
with what we give like we ride in A P I that works already i
will work well all waited
and that is the primary get like G D K will be an abstraction that
right away
it should definitely be okay on everything else next that
okay window plots whatever somebody else comes up i still hope for it am aspect
and so we can easily pull shell
to be a way to post a very well
i lots of backends but in the if we also question how do we implement
this feature we'll look at weight and how the way to do it and that
and you like where for currently we look at that like
like to say it example what we implement the frames for three point eight
we implement of the frame for all X eleven
and i will did
lots of what figure out is it is it implement able and everything else
particular how did a whale and all but then he implemented in the way
that was good for X
and for the people i don't have a right or we just use it idol
souls that takes every sixty milliseconds i'm still
all for the ones where it's not implemented i think windows uses the idols
might have been fixed by now just
we make sure what some X eleven and family of it and works okay everywhere
else but those
so
this is the reason for that is that if we make sure it works really
well everywhere we would be so far behind on these
platforms
until we fix i think it G D K base by the supporting a new
feature that i problems would take weight
i'll come to that when i talk about platforms which is a kind of different
things like to but the general thing is
work them make sure stuff works it doesn't have to be perfect like if you
don't have any frame synchronisation you probably can with it
make sure it's possible to implement it
if the platform supports it the reasonable way
like we try to make a right the i smell
but i just next that you tried to make abstract them in a way that
they can be able and everywhere but if we have to choose
either X eleven or everything else we will choose X
the good news is we're currently in the process of switching from X eleven to
wait and so we have
currently having a very bright extraction that accommodates two very important back-ends
so it's easier than ever to write you one so if you want to experiment
is that like android back like K M S like that
as the best time
please don't write another direct
for better is the question of what size of devices do we
care about
do we want to run small lobe i'll devices do we want to run on
devices without a floating point unit to we want to run on
i really don't supercomputers what devices do we run and i think this question has
been onset last what i've already that know focus is on laptops
so we will with a single lap tops
but i think is that there is lots of devices that are very similar to
laptops like fall factor tablets that have a screen that looks like a laptop screen
the nap rare is simple a very similar C P U power memory
but if we have to decide why how we do we make file choose a
we will not make sure the file choose it fits into a three hundred twenty
by two forty three we will just
go with the do regular laptops
and we also make sure it looks good
size to something
like i was
input devices
how people going
to in that stuff
this is attach question that's always come out
at the other but that is still because laptops obviously i was it P
laptops are getting taxable so expect people to look at what more
that
also back from the technical stuff without the gestures is really complicated apparently to
make something complex like leaving this why
handle without adding lots of extra variables to your five widget privates
we're trying that in the scroll window explode with the is
you can see
this is an interesting one
you can either decide to be the bad form
to define the platform all to try to integrate with existing
i you can say G T K tries very hard to be able you look
at tries to look like K D E applications he tries to look like it
was X application a low cost lights look like windows application
windows and doors look like real application of you know let's the easy
i tried to look like an X F C application all next see in tries
to look like to make a recreational thing
okay
i think we want to be a platform for us
and to integrate sec
i means
a real example with that is
let's say it interesting example is that is middle mouse paste
you know that you can select text and then use the middle mouse button to
paste it anywhere
all
katie
on you know you could do that you know decided to disable it so somebody
wrote the passion to remove it from G T K
that didn't go well with lots of
you know uses i think
it's turned off by default of into currently and all the J fedora hasn't still
do we still have a turn all those a daily of the next release i
don't know
next really it's
so from next door release you cannot middle mouse place anymore you need to do
use control C control
why
you need to ask people that decided that was that's the goal excuse that i
have
and it's a different discussion to
to might fall so you
find the right people i'm not sure visit john allen
some of the design is
side
so this is well not me
it's a it's a good example of why i want to say i think we
need to be a platform for us to decide we don't want to do something
even though they're not all that do it because it's
that to support these things when nobody of the call develop is ever going to
test
and also what people write applications than not going to test
the case where this platform features different
so
they will sometimes even the pen almost
a depend on those platform feature being set one way or the other
like somebody might decide hey the middle mouse button on an entry doesn't do anything
i will at the feature to my entry that i saw on the middle mouse
suddenly that featured is weapon open to because it's about that all the case
okay
to get back
of course if it's possible to integrate and it's not very hard and it's not
very confusing we want to do that
like sometimes we even go out of the way because we think it's really important
like the menu work
that ryan did where you men you can be in the title volume using go
shall the full menu can be a like nudity
or in katie you still have at the window
something as i think it's important but
if we are in that we will be a platform and the platform we yes
of course but you know platform because most of the people it develop
at G T K i know us
which means that if we have to argue with X it see develop is about
that time for the different
sure if we can integrate their ideas but where the whole
but of course and that goes back to the question you awesome
we want to work everywhere
there simple reasonable limits like probably not work
on a commodore sixty four
but
i play somebody has and also lowers box and wants to run the G T
K three application of that
it would be nice if we could do that i think we still do that
like we have we have support for X eleven call protocol features that
at the end of the X so we can run with features that have been
in the X server for ten years and then you get everything you
we we're trying to keep it that way it's also great for D by the
way
we want to run everywhere we want to run on all operating systems of all
platforms we definitely want to keep running at a you don't want you know replicate
press we also
a new machines that you have somewhere with at the end
well whatever
so that means you propose in new features that
for require is the greatest opengl extend have a i will probably complain
this one is an interesting want to like we develop is the use G T
K
what kind of application of a people
are we developing a smallish have slight
my favourite example is always you know clocks because that's just a bunch of box
well i developing huge applications like
we brought it stinks capable
and we also to this one
which you "'cause"
can almost guess it's you have the in the T as tall as we focus
on smaller
the new widgets that we add it make it really easy to write a small
that looks
the way that you know designs and that is really easy to write smaller
and i just because but
the people as well on all the to get like
i know guys that you know it's focusing on small house we want to make
it easy to have an actual listen to that's for where people right smaller fast
and we want to make it easy for that push that
onto the best
there also is the case that the big applications
usually
right that road toolkit or at a lots of bells and whistles and widgets and
so like we're offices the best example it's build or i have fox to build
on top of G T K but they only opened a window in the draw
everything themselves
like they tried to call into the seeming layout maybe of G T K but
that'll using you could be a G T K widgets
and even applications likings K have lots of the road widgets
so if we want to go and at a docking which is okay
probably
you guys would complain but it doesn't look like the docking behaviour the escape doesn't
can play that doesn't look like it's good talking behaviour the nobody user
so
the way this is worked out is that small developers a currently running this the
G T K development so we're focusing on small
yes that of course makes life harder for all those of real application feel like
the applications
what
i defining the difference is some is
i
so this
it's like it's a spectral like that is applications that a small and tiny that
obviously all like thoughts about one of the big the
so it anyways an example that when i wrote this talk presented somebody is that
you brought up i think to me epiphany is a smaller because epiphany is essentially
but prove around
at if you take what you would wept it is easy
what it had which
and if you take that out it's just few
like compare to the my amount of which is that you have and that regulate
you window
where all the settings
layout dialogues layout dialogues set
is that
it's
now
i would i would give you i would give you the definition if the if
the highness hot of porting the application
yes porting all the dialogue boxes that it's a big
which was the big thing for the liberal disguises big thing for the numeric guys
like imagine
but
it's something we're looking more at the smaller side a lot
this might change next year because suddenly lots of develop a show out that want
to make really awesome P T V and i really great to look at the
suddenly we find languages what
but now
about this some more
there's always people making
often times making jobs but
sometimes being serious a why should i use G T K three
i have adjudicated application it's also
should i still use G P K to select what the G T K three
we have been very clear from the beginning that we want everybody of the G
we ninety to get we think G T K three's also
but in recent times
i've kind of started to die
because
G T K two is stable
this change
like every change that happens there even is just a simple but big as a
high chance of breaking some application somewhere
and it's essentially board
that there are people out that the like to stable changing or
there's people that and say well we're targeting route a
ralph i've recently learned as G T K two point ten
do you can two point and already has cairo
doesn't have points that windows
so
it's very
if you write an application that is targeting G T K two point ten
you're probably doing yourselves this service if you're porting it to G T K three
because suddenly you have another pull you to make
unless of course you want to take advantage of all the great features of G
T K three and want to be integrate really well into you know
but if you want to be integrate really well to you know you have to
keep a with you know anyway because you know it's still
changing rubber
quickly
at
sure if you want to do that and if you like that and you have
the manpower a prodigy okay three
so if you have more busy porting your favourite application to all the tools
at removing millions of lines of loading
who for
outdated file
well that might be better to keep using
also do you think a three and this is one of the things you can
three is very
and state people always come to me and say well you doing at i brace
you doing avi breaks
and i always say
we both
we are trying things and see if we can get away with it
like a clutter integration is not something that happens without it
i suppose it doesn't have without a cup i don't know how much of a
magician men yes but probably
i mean we we've managed quite a bit of things them actually quite happy with
how a little we wrote start with all the things that we introduced light
see is that's rendering change the way we do the
three releases and applications you
look okay
at
i also quite happy that all you know develop this that right more complex applications
keep up with us and when we introduce frame clocks
and they have
been done sink some ways they that their applications that suddenly that all
so that's right i
we like
that we can be but of course
if we're both and you know from the technical changes that we want to have
that we probably need to be bold like if we want to introduce gestures and
redo or input system that might be things happening to people that care about input
more than the usual person that this has about clicks
like you for example
so
but we can be both because it enables us to do that so
which brings us to be able
what are we going to do G T K for
why don't we
when i don't know
because
i don't think about you know there is a lot of text to do the
clapper stuff i you have no idea is active stop words and if so how
long take
and
we want those things ideally before we duty for because we want to get the
G T K two advantages be boring
table in particular we want to have those back
we'd like to have a to hear that is modern that works sometimes and has
all these great advantages
but that is also stable and that we can tell people with a huge
application if you all now this application will run i change without problems
five use you
i think this is one of the girls that we have used it you for
the other one is the
the other one is how long can we be bold until our application developers throw
rocks as us for breaking random stuff
there are of course everybody always throws rocks when i find the by that
i
it's
it's about is that we need to take of course because they also want a
support
we definitely shouldn't regular application when we implement and it should work out of the
box and they should
like an application developer will need to change not thing actually just
what about
idea
and if it doesn't extra rolls and we throw the rocks back and as long
as we still have a chance of winning about okay
we will draw
but and then i think we want to
G T K two
the stability that you take a have
i would like to do a new major release
rid of all the deprecated a the eyes
and i tried to be
a lot more careful we do an advertise to a forest we had done with
for
i ask you saying and the beginning with
and of long as you laugh
we will go
that
question
as a contributor to G T K even a small one about a couple of
projects going to the toolkit
i think that the domain interesting having widgets you can so i G T K
is they need to be
widely used we need to be able a pick-off to name all doesn't applications that
we use that particular widget three to be useful
and
what we try to do well but you know those widgets is also make sure
that they match the good on designs
so that means that the behave and the look and feel of the of the
new widgets should match
should match the designs and that makes it that much easier to write applications that
do the right thing
yes something i didn't talk about with it i actually like a lot this the
way that we currently develop the new widgets at the kind of we just we
develop
like they
they
requires so behaviour from your application see which it so we kind of
match you in the right direction if you use the widgets that your application looks
kind of okay without lots of input from people in advance doing more things like
that
and
at those widgets mature in libraries that are using the what the G D
and sometimes they make it
and then they get review then we also the accessibility we usually fix accessibility issues
already only G D because we use the which is you know and sometimes they
don't like it and then they end up in those few applications that actually
use the widgets sometimes the widgets you can type budget to the different applications use
that
at the nice thing so far is that which is that have shown up in
G T K are a really useful for a lot of applications be the A
P I is actually a well thought out
at the widgets
i'm going to work because they had been used in that way
for a while
a very different thing
so yes i like that very much so if you have a which is that
you think lots of
applications i using attic you know develop
get in touch with
best and probably me that in doing that too late G D's one of the
cases i don't know what they act for a list box had it's a repository
but that's
does that still exist there's still of the box and that's so there's about a
repositories that we have that you can also use if you want to try those
we just but they of course don't have G P case
i guarantee
so
if you're not again develop
you but it's definitely interesting to look at them from time to time to figure
out
what we're
that you
i use you spoke a little bit of a of the back and so you
want to support but you didn't really talk about what might be on the other
side so a lot of people are saying she'd it is rapidly becoming to can
home toolkit how do you things like access to your and likes to you that
want to use G T K but you know maybe don't want to use all
the can don't hurt
so that's what i sat we want to be a platform bust integrate second
so if you want to use G T K to do your own that form
but it
but all that is very different from G T K
you that complaints probably for doing all those setting patches
i mean if you want to use G T K
you kind of
i mean the place where you use G T K
so you to become a G T K develop that push the to look at
in a different direction i can tell you from experience that takes quite some people
at
or you
have to pay
i'm not saying you have to take what we give you but you have to
talk to as and
i have to be prepared to get an though
yes i mean if you if you want if you want to write a lot
of all that uses G T K of them to look at
you better dissipated G T K somehow guy G T K to be the to
look at that you wanted to
otherwise certificate will be the going to because they can do people do that
this is just a theoretical concern like "'cause" i was i can tell what ecstasy
melody are just clones windows ninety five we kind of support that in you know
the menu success and i mean id is there actually any design coming from that
or there's various questions coming up but the they are very capital
to save like that like one of the things is when we did the place
a sidebar
the place aside box of the places side but have an entry for desktop
because we don't show the desktop and you know
but the desktop get show that it would do
and ecstasy
and i like stevie searchable file to the have an entry for the best well
that was one of the questions that showed up that i remember
it's
right
so the best top needs to tell you
like all windows you probably one problem
all i was X you probably won't want to do they sell at the best
of what's the time
the people you get making the you know to look at comments are not just
talking about designed other also talking about like you approach to especially the pace of
the development you know we change things we make sure mostly works with gnome applications
and then that is that is what i sat with the people like we still
hobble we think we still want to be bold because we still don't have a
we still don't have G L
we want based things and everybody ones us to have a stake even the people
that play in that we are not stable a saying you should be stable and
also have these features
i guess that i don't think there is anybody right now that's as G T
K C D's today looks also let's freeze it and never touch it again and
then we're right applications
we still somewhere in the pros is what we do they will that
i would like this to be back sooner rather than later but
it's work and somebody has to do it doesn't happen it's
and that's all i can say about it can say we'll that year we set
that two years ago and that the what
any questions
okay thank you very much but