1 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:13,140 this is a talk on extreme containment measures 2 00:00:13,890 --> 00:00:18,500 phone and language will be might be used for those who don't know me an 3 00:00:18,500 --> 00:00:22,090 example so i mean i don't know how like and i've been involved in one 4 00:00:22,090 --> 00:00:24,920 way or another since roughly two thousand and five 5 00:00:25,260 --> 00:00:31,020 and obviously with my first touch points for the gnome community have in panic no 6 00:00:31,020 --> 00:00:38,910 and buttons it up i spend a lot of time filing and three icing bugs 7 00:00:39,310 --> 00:00:44,260 and my character has level to well level reach the whole forty three in the 8 00:00:44,260 --> 00:00:50,510 massively multiplayer online knowing that is complex a lot so in this talk i'm going 9 00:00:50,510 --> 00:00:54,810 to present my analyses of the big issues that we face 10 00:00:55,070 --> 00:01:01,700 and proposed methodology and a set of recommendations to solve these issues 11 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:08,440 i have some rather strong opinions and of course those are just my suggestions so 12 00:01:08,440 --> 00:01:14,040 if you think that what i'm saying is completely evil well then feel free to 13 00:01:14,040 --> 00:01:18,170 rage against my medical is an and i'd the talk is pretty going to be 14 00:01:18,170 --> 00:01:23,300 rather short so we should have plenty of time to discuss in the 15 00:01:25,540 --> 00:01:28,800 i would like to have a big debate at the end if i don't have 16 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:33,720 some kind of reaction i probably failed and then we just have to go to 17 00:01:33,720 --> 00:01:36,100 the beach or something but well way there's no beach here 18 00:01:37,230 --> 00:01:37,570 so 19 00:01:38,740 --> 00:01:44,850 i have some assumptions that some of you might already have seen some of this 20 00:01:44,850 --> 00:01:47,480 stuff that i wrote set couple months ago 21 00:01:49,160 --> 00:01:54,080 but it's really if you want to know where mike kind of philosophy comes from 22 00:01:54,080 --> 00:01:59,380 a summary of mine ways of thinking i have been strongly influenced by the mythologies 23 00:01:59,380 --> 00:02:04,810 like getting things done or involve zero which is basically just getting things done but 24 00:02:04,810 --> 00:02:10,210 apply to an e-mail really so if you haven't read those things i highly recommend 25 00:02:10,210 --> 00:02:15,070 then in if you're the kind of person who likes to be organised 26 00:02:17,120 --> 00:02:17,720 and 27 00:02:18,590 --> 00:02:19,080 so 28 00:02:19,900 --> 00:02:21,480 all based on actually 29 00:02:22,820 --> 00:02:25,160 the sound doesn't work a 30 00:02:26,300 --> 00:02:30,400 so it doesn't matter anyway so those books are interesting and everything but if you 31 00:02:30,400 --> 00:02:31,680 really think about it 32 00:02:32,180 --> 00:02:35,980 the core essence has always been about what's been going on in the world of 33 00:02:35,980 --> 00:02:37,470 manufacturing for the last 34 00:02:37,770 --> 00:02:39,170 thirty years so 35 00:02:40,050 --> 00:02:45,690 lean and just in time manufacturing is it's a fascinating concept and 36 00:02:46,110 --> 00:02:48,690 well i was doing studies in management 37 00:02:49,010 --> 00:02:55,230 i started thinking about those things and how they applied pretty much everything we do 38 00:02:55,230 --> 00:02:55,860 in life 39 00:02:56,330 --> 00:03:02,770 from your personal to do this to managing a candy factory to managing a software 40 00:03:02,770 --> 00:03:03,710 development project 41 00:03:04,080 --> 00:03:05,170 so 42 00:03:05,730 --> 00:03:08,740 and when you think about it everything is about slow 43 00:03:09,450 --> 00:03:15,380 about good and adapting to change so you have something close in and you have 44 00:03:15,380 --> 00:03:19,810 stuff that those out and you want this to be constant and so it and 45 00:03:20,270 --> 00:03:23,740 and you want to avoid committing stuff because as soon as you have to make 46 00:03:23,740 --> 00:03:27,800 stuff well things will below i can guarantee and 47 00:03:28,740 --> 00:03:34,010 and there's this interesting thing from one of the books i've mentioned previously is the 48 00:03:34,010 --> 00:03:38,590 only keeping that you should be retained from in the gold writes a book 49 00:03:38,900 --> 00:03:41,410 in the context of but management is this 50 00:03:42,150 --> 00:03:45,960 excess invent three is the liability it's not an asset 51 00:03:46,590 --> 00:03:47,090 and 52 00:03:47,610 --> 00:03:52,180 in that in the manufacturing world actually that means the stuff that you have produced 53 00:03:52,620 --> 00:03:58,550 and now you think well okay wait that's just wrong the product is work something 54 00:03:58,550 --> 00:04:01,100 right we're gonna sell it and then so it's and it's not set 55 00:04:01,930 --> 00:04:04,740 it's natural to think that way 56 00:04:05,270 --> 00:04:10,340 except that you don't know the market constraints until useful that you're not selling it 57 00:04:10,340 --> 00:04:15,080 me immediately if you were you wouldn't be in the inventor E you will you 58 00:04:15,080 --> 00:04:17,440 would you would just be selling it and making a profit 59 00:04:18,830 --> 00:04:24,510 and so what this means is that is stuff that just sits around until it 60 00:04:24,510 --> 00:04:25,790 might be sold 61 00:04:26,480 --> 00:04:31,650 and then it devalues it waste this resources and it clogs up the system 62 00:04:32,490 --> 00:04:33,010 so 63 00:04:33,670 --> 00:04:34,960 in our context 64 00:04:35,810 --> 00:04:37,830 that means connective wait 65 00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:39,380 and 66 00:04:39,990 --> 00:04:43,950 that's a concept that i took from getting things know that don 67 00:04:44,430 --> 00:04:45,130 and 68 00:04:47,080 --> 00:04:49,650 you think things know miss we can also that by the weights 69 00:04:51,200 --> 00:04:58,010 so it's is it translates to wasted time searching for existing but reports split attention 70 00:04:58,010 --> 00:05:05,000 on duplicates wasted energy looking for well it's good same bugs that were kept open 71 00:05:05,000 --> 00:05:08,720 or because we were close to soon and 72 00:05:09,220 --> 00:05:13,820 it all it's also feels like an incorrect indication of the quality of your software 73 00:05:15,100 --> 00:05:15,590 and 74 00:05:16,720 --> 00:05:18,050 we have a problem here 75 00:05:19,280 --> 00:05:22,110 we are accumulating excess eventually 76 00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:23,390 lots of it 77 00:05:23,910 --> 00:05:24,540 and fast 78 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:26,120 and it's slowing us down 79 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,810 of course pretty much every project out there has this problem 80 00:05:31,670 --> 00:05:35,260 and you to the fact that you know is such a large ecosystem 81 00:05:36,440 --> 00:05:41,640 of this can ecosystem projects that have been going on for over fifteen years 82 00:05:42,160 --> 00:05:47,850 well we and we don't have unlimited the mat time and manpower 83 00:05:48,770 --> 00:05:51,260 the consequences is just going exponential 84 00:05:52,210 --> 00:05:56,060 so allow non you're thinking well okay maybe is just exaggerating 85 00:05:56,940 --> 00:06:00,960 so let me show you the problem we have in a very concrete way 86 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:06,830 this is the global amount of open but report thinking on since the beginning 87 00:06:07,660 --> 00:06:11,710 i'm actually and missing data between two thousand and one or two thousand and five 88 00:06:11,710 --> 00:06:16,210 but i'm pretty sure the amount of focus has not drastically going down during that 89 00:06:16,210 --> 00:06:19,800 period so i just put some random guy on a bike right 90 00:06:20,110 --> 00:06:21,180 feel the whole 91 00:06:22,420 --> 00:06:23,050 so that's 92 00:06:23,400 --> 00:06:30,000 forty five thousand bug reports that we have open right now and i'd argue that 93 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:36,030 this is not sustainable this stuff is often times so old and they see that 94 00:06:36,030 --> 00:06:40,810 doesn't even represent to real amount bugs that users experience 95 00:06:41,570 --> 00:06:44,790 so let me this is with it this way i don't know the but you 96 00:06:44,790 --> 00:06:45,410 but 97 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:47,330 i as a user 98 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,840 if i was feeling the weight of forty five thousand bucks 99 00:06:53,100 --> 00:06:54,040 every day 100 00:06:54,660 --> 00:06:58,950 i wouldn't be using the computer that's all i would probably be crying in a 101 00:06:58,950 --> 00:06:59,450 corner 102 00:07:00,320 --> 00:07:01,100 and 103 00:07:01,600 --> 00:07:02,250 so 104 00:07:03,500 --> 00:07:08,600 well who's responsible for this would we point fingers to well pretty much everybody to 105 00:07:08,600 --> 00:07:09,170 some extent 106 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,460 it's really easy to let things 107 00:07:12,610 --> 00:07:14,410 slipped and rest of the time 108 00:07:15,350 --> 00:07:20,440 and so i'm going to show you some examples and those are not meant to 109 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:21,220 be 110 00:07:21,570 --> 00:07:25,870 finger pointing or anything like that they are just meant to in the illustrates how 111 00:07:25,870 --> 00:07:26,700 different projects 112 00:07:27,190 --> 00:07:29,230 and all their bug infantry differently 113 00:07:29,830 --> 00:07:32,180 and well i think it's quite interesting really 114 00:07:35,130 --> 00:07:35,540 so 115 00:07:37,350 --> 00:07:38,980 first case it is really 116 00:07:40,770 --> 00:07:44,980 it was fairly nice the under control is a can see and then the port 117 00:07:44,980 --> 00:07:46,130 to webcat happened 118 00:07:48,290 --> 00:07:52,730 and many things changed including the apps branding and positioning 119 00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:55,920 because now epiphany is 120 00:07:56,510 --> 00:08:02,870 this really mean stripped down a way more than it was before so that's 121 00:08:03,290 --> 00:08:08,230 a different positioning you don't have the same kind of features that want to deal 122 00:08:08,230 --> 00:08:08,540 with 123 00:08:09,800 --> 00:08:15,270 and well we can infer that the green bugs were filed by the developers right 124 00:08:15,270 --> 00:08:17,260 from the start because they were 125 00:08:17,750 --> 00:08:20,200 that is new which means conferencing you know 126 00:08:20,810 --> 00:08:26,790 and we see that we got the that green curve gradually declining in importance in 127 00:08:26,790 --> 00:08:28,130 the past few years 128 00:08:28,590 --> 00:08:29,660 but not that much 129 00:08:30,250 --> 00:08:32,480 so well gradually declining 130 00:08:33,030 --> 00:08:37,260 in absolute terms so some of those very old bugs that these files from the 131 00:08:37,260 --> 00:08:37,970 beginning 132 00:08:38,460 --> 00:08:42,920 some of them have been fixed in that's a great thing but there's this really 133 00:08:42,920 --> 00:08:49,240 big red line that's goes that's going on and i think that in the case 134 00:08:49,240 --> 00:08:52,870 of epiphany we have this huge cleanup opportunity 135 00:08:53,120 --> 00:08:55,120 because support of web to work it 136 00:08:55,540 --> 00:09:01,350 changes everything changes everything the backend so all those bugs were reported back when epiphany 137 00:09:01,350 --> 00:09:08,240 was running on a call the well the last firefox that something engine they are 138 00:09:08,240 --> 00:09:10,090 they need to be retested or 139 00:09:10,760 --> 00:09:14,920 in many cases than we know that they are fixed we so you have this 140 00:09:14,920 --> 00:09:19,250 cleanup opportunity and there is also the fact that the you why is so much 141 00:09:19,250 --> 00:09:23,680 simpler and does not want to do everything that the old you white one did 142 00:09:24,660 --> 00:09:26,880 that's also another clean up opportunity 143 00:09:28,030 --> 00:09:31,090 so that was the case that you have epiphany 144 00:09:31,640 --> 00:09:37,940 and well and that is just a generic example is fairly under control that bill 145 00:09:37,940 --> 00:09:43,030 died but the end that was me because i started thinking up some stuff but 146 00:09:43,030 --> 00:09:43,470 then 147 00:09:44,590 --> 00:09:47,510 life happens and i didn't continue that much 148 00:09:48,780 --> 00:09:51,830 so it looks like a typical glow module 149 00:09:52,300 --> 00:09:53,000 and 150 00:09:53,820 --> 00:09:55,790 evolution is a special case 151 00:09:56,690 --> 00:09:59,070 notice that actually use the new status 152 00:09:59,960 --> 00:10:04,640 and that there was this amazing improvement somewhere in the 153 00:10:05,540 --> 00:10:10,750 somewhere in guess advocate and if i'm not mistaken a big part of that is 154 00:10:10,750 --> 00:10:13,300 thanks to on the clapper is he here 155 00:10:13,630 --> 00:10:14,320 yes 156 00:10:14,680 --> 00:10:15,650 is that true 157 00:10:18,830 --> 00:10:20,630 well thank you all day 158 00:10:21,190 --> 00:10:22,820 i you that you that one 159 00:10:23,980 --> 00:10:24,600 and 160 00:10:25,550 --> 00:10:27,440 so but there's still this 161 00:10:28,120 --> 00:10:31,300 huge amount of bug reports left to deal with so 162 00:10:32,010 --> 00:10:34,330 that defined ahead all day and 163 00:10:36,310 --> 00:10:37,220 no show 164 00:10:38,240 --> 00:10:38,690 away 165 00:10:40,190 --> 00:10:45,100 i have many things to say about the way the project handle it's bug reports 166 00:10:45,100 --> 00:10:50,160 but i fear might hurt some feelings so maybe i'll keep that for discussions in 167 00:10:50,160 --> 00:10:54,040 the hallways or maybe at the ways question period at the end so 168 00:10:55,910 --> 00:11:00,070 but anyway it's gonna it's gonna just flow naturally with the 169 00:11:00,390 --> 00:11:04,730 the techniques i'm suggesting in the rest of the stock and 170 00:11:05,830 --> 00:11:08,070 G T K it needs help 171 00:11:09,230 --> 00:11:13,480 it has a lot of old bugs so you as you can see so over 172 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,260 two thousand to a two thousand five hundred 173 00:11:16,750 --> 00:11:21,560 no actually you have to you have to add up the lines actually it's not 174 00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:23,190 there are cumulative 175 00:11:24,920 --> 00:11:28,510 so it has a lot a lot a lot of old bugs that are certainly 176 00:11:28,510 --> 00:11:29,900 not relevant anymore 177 00:11:30,760 --> 00:11:33,550 it basically needs an army of testers 178 00:11:34,090 --> 00:11:38,380 and i from a net contributor once said to me 179 00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:41,530 i am not subscribe to did you to give about males 180 00:11:41,870 --> 00:11:43,700 i don't look at the bug tracker 181 00:11:44,290 --> 00:11:47,360 when it comes to fix in biology books in G T K 182 00:11:47,970 --> 00:11:51,580 whoever catches me first on our C in the morning wins 183 00:11:52,810 --> 00:11:54,280 we have a problem 184 00:11:55,080 --> 00:11:55,720 so 185 00:11:57,200 --> 00:12:01,270 and of our case to illustrate is a bit to be which is also another 186 00:12:01,270 --> 00:12:02,040 special based 187 00:12:04,240 --> 00:12:08,240 i'm arrogant enough to think that this is kind of how things should be at 188 00:12:08,240 --> 00:12:08,810 least 189 00:12:09,180 --> 00:12:11,870 i like at least like this or better and this 190 00:12:12,270 --> 00:12:17,880 the new bugs are more numerous than the unconfirmed bugs 191 00:12:18,550 --> 00:12:23,920 and they are kind of kept on the control so i the thing that i 192 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:27,840 actually haven't mentioned is that all those graphs they are not on the same scale 193 00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:29,990 the are all related to their own 194 00:12:30,700 --> 00:12:36,760 their own total so evolution you went from like five thousand to three thousand to 195 00:12:36,760 --> 00:12:40,190 a little bit nicer i think it's about the thousand now and you take a 196 00:12:40,190 --> 00:12:44,490 as you could see was the at two thousand five hundred B T V the 197 00:12:44,490 --> 00:12:51,080 scale here is a hundred and fifty the upper bounds so if you add things 198 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:55,200 up it's about two hundred two hundred and forty fifty bucks half of that is 199 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,800 the feature requests 200 00:12:57,570 --> 00:12:59,430 feature requests and 201 00:13:00,350 --> 00:13:05,340 and this graph is going to eventually come crashing down in the next be to 202 00:13:05,340 --> 00:13:10,560 be really switch it will happen any day now as i close a bunch of 203 00:13:10,560 --> 00:13:12,160 those old bug reports 204 00:13:13,340 --> 00:13:18,660 and i ching this advertising you might be interested in attending maybe to talk tomorrow 205 00:13:18,660 --> 00:13:20,420 at the end of the for details 206 00:13:21,900 --> 00:13:26,810 britain box is another it well it's in a similar situation to G T K 207 00:13:26,810 --> 00:13:28,160 it needs help 208 00:13:28,760 --> 00:13:35,410 it has at on of potential duplicates and in change book reports 209 00:13:36,810 --> 00:13:43,220 i certainly don't feel like i'm encountering a thousand bug it i thousand four hundred 210 00:13:43,220 --> 00:13:45,680 bucks when i'm listening to my music library 211 00:13:46,090 --> 00:13:50,940 so i don't think there are that many buttons thing with some box it is 212 00:13:52,360 --> 00:13:54,190 nobody closest box i think 213 00:13:55,830 --> 00:14:00,530 so well let's talk about quality and let me shut up or while and think 214 00:14:00,530 --> 00:14:05,450 of a bit a while what is quality this is an open question for you 215 00:14:05,450 --> 00:14:06,870 folks to answer 216 00:14:08,140 --> 00:14:12,000 how should we can own define how we measure quality 217 00:14:14,900 --> 00:14:15,600 anyone 218 00:14:20,250 --> 00:14:20,970 really 219 00:14:23,120 --> 00:14:25,250 it's all about the users in the 220 00:14:29,150 --> 00:14:31,960 the company incoming number of bug reports 221 00:14:39,640 --> 00:14:40,530 i wonder 222 00:14:42,050 --> 00:14:43,140 any other ideas 223 00:14:47,580 --> 00:14:50,130 static and the statistical analysis 224 00:15:00,280 --> 00:15:01,620 well it doesn't crash 225 00:15:02,300 --> 00:15:04,880 the you know of an application that doesn't crash ever 226 00:15:07,150 --> 00:15:09,780 it works once should it should it 227 00:15:12,470 --> 00:15:14,160 well how do we know that we're 228 00:15:15,270 --> 00:15:17,430 that we're better off as a whole 229 00:15:17,940 --> 00:15:19,570 compared to two thousand five 230 00:15:23,550 --> 00:15:24,880 in any case 231 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,130 we can probably agree that the amount of bug reports we hadn't noble to that 232 00:15:30,130 --> 00:15:33,770 is not a strong indication of the quality of our software 233 00:15:37,270 --> 00:15:40,420 and this is a partial quote from joe was able ski 234 00:15:41,950 --> 00:15:45,970 at some point you start wondering what is people love my software 235 00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:49,990 one hell have so many but reports 236 00:15:50,590 --> 00:15:54,050 open then there waiting increase crashing down my soul 237 00:15:55,760 --> 00:15:58,960 it in this article so argues that 238 00:15:59,890 --> 00:16:03,510 force the actually advocate for something pretty rack radical he says 239 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:08,210 do not allow for more than two weeks in fixing time 240 00:16:08,580 --> 00:16:12,020 of bugs to accumulate in the bug database 241 00:16:12,970 --> 00:16:16,820 so if you have more than that you stop and you fix books until you 242 00:16:16,820 --> 00:16:18,710 feel like you're fixing stupid bugs 243 00:16:19,290 --> 00:16:21,800 and then you close all the remaining but reports 244 00:16:22,670 --> 00:16:26,700 and he says don't worry december break this either bogs will come back 245 00:16:27,980 --> 00:16:31,380 okay that's a crazy radical thing to do 246 00:16:31,890 --> 00:16:37,280 that's not what applying to our if those as an as open source developers typically 247 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:39,920 especially if we're talking about volunteer work 248 00:16:40,580 --> 00:16:45,950 where we don't necessarily have that seeing the regularity the manpower to fix bugs at 249 00:16:45,950 --> 00:16:46,860 the steady pace 250 00:16:49,020 --> 00:16:50,000 so how do we do it 251 00:16:51,640 --> 00:16:57,020 you're thinking maybe well okay that's easy if you're only dealing with feature requests 252 00:16:57,510 --> 00:16:59,360 or about then 253 00:17:00,430 --> 00:17:02,300 what do you do with longstanding bugs 254 00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,710 or what do you we do with the pickets 255 00:17:07,410 --> 00:17:09,630 well we need to get serious about control 256 00:17:13,450 --> 00:17:15,440 and by see resign mean many things 257 00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:20,060 the right from the cards and philosophy in the manufacturing will 258 00:17:21,160 --> 00:17:27,190 and cards and is basically this is also called five S system sadie sate on 259 00:17:27,190 --> 00:17:32,850 say suppose and stick it so then it's okay it's translating to send it sizing 260 00:17:32,850 --> 00:17:34,580 which is get rid of stuff 261 00:17:35,080 --> 00:17:42,610 organising cleaning maintaining the D V cleaning less and disciplined enough to catering this methodology 262 00:17:46,220 --> 00:17:50,210 we have forty five thousand bugs we need to start cleaning now and we need 263 00:17:50,210 --> 00:17:53,390 just keep cleaning as we go in the future 264 00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:57,740 so now we can apply some other things like inbox zero 265 00:17:58,710 --> 00:18:03,140 and box there was basically just a mindset we say what is this mindset we're 266 00:18:03,140 --> 00:18:07,700 dealing with email but we can apply to but management to some extent when you 267 00:18:07,700 --> 00:18:11,430 receive an email you can either delete it you can transfer 268 00:18:11,870 --> 00:18:14,650 to somebody else you can respond immediately 269 00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:19,610 or you can market to be processed later because you're waiting on something else to 270 00:18:19,610 --> 00:18:20,630 happen in the universe 271 00:18:21,240 --> 00:18:24,300 or you do the action that you email sender requests 272 00:18:25,100 --> 00:18:26,250 and we can apply that 273 00:18:26,810 --> 00:18:28,300 to are but 274 00:18:29,020 --> 00:18:29,850 mythology 275 00:18:30,870 --> 00:18:36,230 and basically decision-making boils down to three possibilities 276 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,240 it's and you could see that 277 00:18:40,870 --> 00:18:42,530 need info is not 278 00:18:43,560 --> 00:18:47,890 actually this that there but it's really important 279 00:18:48,390 --> 00:18:50,900 you have to use meeting full aggressively 280 00:18:52,310 --> 00:18:57,090 you helps you identify obsolete bugs by simply running a search for bugs that have 281 00:18:57,090 --> 00:18:58,860 been in them in the info state for 282 00:18:59,750 --> 00:19:01,380 over two months or something 283 00:19:02,330 --> 00:19:05,150 and confirming bugs is actually important 284 00:19:06,100 --> 00:19:08,980 very few projects just actually confirmed the box 285 00:19:10,250 --> 00:19:14,910 one thing i would strongly at of okay for tech actually is that we replace 286 00:19:14,910 --> 00:19:20,210 the new statist by conference in can on box it up even though many people 287 00:19:20,210 --> 00:19:24,080 will probably throw rotten fruit and me for saying that because i don't know many 288 00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:25,860 people don't believe in confirmation about this 289 00:19:26,430 --> 00:19:27,230 but 290 00:19:28,160 --> 00:19:29,700 i think it could make an 291 00:19:30,050 --> 00:19:32,960 add difference psychologically speaking 292 00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:35,200 because 293 00:19:36,030 --> 00:19:38,330 indecision is power lights is 294 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:44,160 if you leave at seven years old bug report open because it's in unconfirmed states 295 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,170 and because nobody has made a decision 296 00:19:47,980 --> 00:19:51,540 it's not gonna help to attain a learning process 297 00:19:51,990 --> 00:19:57,750 so whatever possible we want to clear yes or no if we don't decide now 298 00:19:57,750 --> 00:20:01,300 we probably never will there's a question over there 299 00:20:01,910 --> 00:20:03,970 we have a microphone 300 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:06,580 you can shop and 301 00:20:08,480 --> 00:20:12,640 and are given the microphone or i will read tweed the question 302 00:20:14,160 --> 00:20:20,520 hi i'm i guess possibly five maybe ten percent of the box it might box 303 00:20:20,520 --> 00:20:25,990 of the overflow folder where i've set they lock and so this picture and i 304 00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:27,690 say sorry ask a not about 305 00:20:28,650 --> 00:20:30,050 and they rip in the back 306 00:20:30,590 --> 00:20:34,720 and i say still i think still not still not gonna happen close the book 307 00:20:34,720 --> 00:20:37,060 that in the park and i just pick of well 308 00:20:37,740 --> 00:20:38,960 magically we box with the 309 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:41,240 the report just keeps reopening them 310 00:20:46,060 --> 00:20:48,670 i think that so that's it comes that a little bit later 311 00:20:49,490 --> 00:20:52,510 actually that's with the previous like to some extent 312 00:20:55,620 --> 00:20:59,220 if it's a bug well okay a bogus should be fixed 313 00:20:59,530 --> 00:21:01,210 but if it's a feature requests 314 00:21:01,720 --> 00:21:03,780 well there are three types 315 00:21:04,070 --> 00:21:07,950 either you agree with the thing is a absolutely i wanna do it so 316 00:21:08,370 --> 00:21:12,480 yes confirmed and everything if you are confident that you can actually fix it 317 00:21:13,840 --> 00:21:19,210 either your like not this really doesn't fit the vision so no out of scope 318 00:21:19,210 --> 00:21:19,720 sorry 319 00:21:20,670 --> 00:21:25,320 and there's a middle ground where side while i could like this feature but i 320 00:21:25,320 --> 00:21:29,400 don't really care that much and i don't have them apart is that your case 321 00:21:31,630 --> 00:21:32,840 we should be constant 322 00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:37,440 so in the case where they suggest something this we could have anything that we 323 00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:38,110 could have 324 00:21:39,080 --> 00:21:43,130 and you say catches welcome and then nothing happens just close it 325 00:21:46,310 --> 00:21:47,810 so what i would do 326 00:21:48,590 --> 00:21:49,180 is 327 00:21:49,490 --> 00:21:51,710 i would markets as enhancements 328 00:21:52,190 --> 00:21:55,950 with and i would highly it with the goal of help want to do and 329 00:21:55,950 --> 00:21:59,570 everything should but then is so it's not gonna as an enhancement it's not about 330 00:21:59,570 --> 00:22:01,920 report and at some points 331 00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:05,660 after three years you can't we all the patch 332 00:22:05,950 --> 00:22:06,940 or after 333 00:22:07,470 --> 00:22:10,980 i'm saying three years but maybe after one year or two years 334 00:22:11,930 --> 00:22:17,310 if there is no clear indication if it's like one guy in the in some 335 00:22:17,310 --> 00:22:22,120 faraway country we carry can strays it down so instead of 336 00:22:22,970 --> 00:22:28,800 twenty people saying plus one plus one plus one and then you could say well 337 00:22:28,800 --> 00:22:32,720 these your open this bug report this enhancement request when you have a patch because 338 00:22:32,720 --> 00:22:37,290 i cut but then comes in the can replies which i will cover that there 339 00:22:37,940 --> 00:22:40,090 there is out in with a question 340 00:22:48,980 --> 00:22:50,500 but i know it's difficult 341 00:22:51,180 --> 00:22:55,550 to come back to the question we do it in the form a we had 342 00:22:55,550 --> 00:22:57,420 a czech cult your job 343 00:22:58,160 --> 00:23:04,000 a dish in addition to the enhancement and we provides help to get it it's 344 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,040 a great it's like you know which files to you have to add it's by 345 00:23:07,040 --> 00:23:07,880 do you have to start 346 00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:13,850 then the other thing to remember is that 347 00:23:14,900 --> 00:23:16,750 it's probably not useful to have 348 00:23:17,190 --> 00:23:18,370 five hundred 349 00:23:18,860 --> 00:23:22,760 yes would like this but we're not gonna work on that box because it's not 350 00:23:22,760 --> 00:23:26,360 helpful from you contribute is either like is much better to have 351 00:23:26,930 --> 00:23:30,050 these of the top twenty things we want you to do if you wanna contribute 352 00:23:31,020 --> 00:23:35,460 and just maintain that list and you know we will still be in the database 353 00:23:35,460 --> 00:23:39,930 even if you close then you can still kind of search for close but i 354 00:23:39,930 --> 00:23:42,510 with no love the something the not gone forever 355 00:23:42,990 --> 00:23:45,350 so you can you can manage a list that one 356 00:23:46,430 --> 00:23:49,320 you could indeed have some kind of special search for 357 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,070 bugs that well feature requests 358 00:23:52,360 --> 00:23:54,790 that times out because nobody has a bad 359 00:23:55,370 --> 00:23:56,200 it could be done 360 00:23:58,760 --> 00:23:59,810 the questions 361 00:24:01,550 --> 00:24:05,300 i sell continue glorious past 362 00:24:08,600 --> 00:24:13,090 so here yes i don't know whenever possible when you it's not possible 363 00:24:14,030 --> 00:24:19,680 use this wonderful thing called time to figure out if there is actually real interest 364 00:24:20,250 --> 00:24:22,020 that can help you 365 00:24:23,930 --> 00:24:29,170 i mean part of the open source thing is that we want people to be 366 00:24:29,170 --> 00:24:32,440 annoyed enough to contribute to our project 367 00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:36,970 so if after three years nobody there is to make a patch for it 368 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:40,620 maybe it's not important enough 369 00:24:40,980 --> 00:24:42,560 maybe it's not annoying enough 370 00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,560 you either oppose it can from and something else 371 00:24:50,820 --> 00:24:57,600 and using target milestones is actually pretty important and useful to and it allows you 372 00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:58,550 to know 373 00:24:58,970 --> 00:25:03,390 but maybe that's just a personal thing i do with the P T V about 374 00:25:03,390 --> 00:25:07,500 it allows you to know which bugs were fixed for web version exactly 375 00:25:08,130 --> 00:25:11,720 and it also helps a lot when you're releasing 376 00:25:12,110 --> 00:25:15,280 because you just have to search for results bugs that were 377 00:25:15,700 --> 00:25:20,130 attached to a given milestone and then you write the release notes or just point 378 00:25:20,130 --> 00:25:23,620 to the link saying that was where the bugs that were fixed drink for this 379 00:25:23,620 --> 00:25:27,920 release even if this book was ten years old it was finally fixed for this 380 00:25:27,920 --> 00:25:32,060 release and you can see all that kind of information directly in the bug tracker 381 00:25:35,010 --> 00:25:40,070 so when i was saying about yes-no fix it immediately are deferred or say just 382 00:25:40,070 --> 00:25:40,850 know 383 00:25:41,130 --> 00:25:45,740 when i say fix it into the i do mean fix it and then controls 384 00:25:45,740 --> 00:25:46,530 the bug report 385 00:25:47,370 --> 00:25:52,010 unless the feature is still broken and i mean really broken let me illustrate this 386 00:25:52,010 --> 00:25:55,440 but i need sound for this to work and i'm not sure i do have 387 00:25:55,440 --> 00:25:56,080 sounds 388 00:26:02,910 --> 00:26:05,630 or is there anything that controls the somewhere here 389 00:26:11,160 --> 00:26:12,490 not normally 390 00:26:15,200 --> 00:26:20,170 well one what lot of speakers all i could like what microphone 391 00:26:20,960 --> 00:26:22,270 that's gonna be also 392 00:26:49,330 --> 00:26:50,950 that was a former so you're that 393 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:53,810 alright 394 00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:58,190 ghetto blaster microphone like so 395 00:26:58,620 --> 00:27:00,020 what do i mean by this 396 00:27:01,560 --> 00:27:05,550 you've got a fixed for about that you have committed to your master brian what 397 00:27:05,550 --> 00:27:08,700 you are a little bit unsatisfied with the cost quality 398 00:27:10,550 --> 00:27:14,620 then you add some comments in your code and a to do item on your 399 00:27:14,620 --> 00:27:19,320 personal this but do not keep your bug report open insisting because when you'd like 400 00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,980 to come is a better implementation 401 00:27:22,760 --> 00:27:23,950 you don't show some 402 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:30,070 by the way to not close bugs until the fix has been marriage 403 00:27:30,500 --> 00:27:31,780 the main development branch 404 00:27:32,650 --> 00:27:37,170 is the fix is only committed to a separate branch well you can market as 405 00:27:37,170 --> 00:27:40,610 assigned another underused but reports that is 406 00:27:41,310 --> 00:27:42,660 and then 407 00:27:43,590 --> 00:27:47,320 you can market is assigned until it goes into monster and of course you said 408 00:27:47,320 --> 00:27:49,510 yes find email because that's pretty 409 00:27:51,100 --> 00:27:51,420 so 410 00:27:54,280 --> 00:27:58,600 no is actually pretty famous for daring to say no out of scope 411 00:27:59,820 --> 00:28:04,110 but saying you know without ending up on the front page of slashdot is actually 412 00:28:04,110 --> 00:28:05,570 a very delicate art 413 00:28:06,670 --> 00:28:12,190 you can't implement everything out there due to insufficient manpower or because feature X would 414 00:28:12,190 --> 00:28:15,590 go against projects vision or intended user experience 415 00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:20,910 and for that i can't miss i age helps a lot 416 00:28:21,610 --> 00:28:26,770 people we with will respect your decision more if we know your constraints and why 417 00:28:26,770 --> 00:28:28,540 you have to say no 418 00:28:29,940 --> 00:28:31,290 so by can message 419 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:33,200 well 420 00:28:34,570 --> 00:28:39,330 i kind of message is the message that you composed for something that's basically as 421 00:28:39,330 --> 00:28:40,780 if you for book reports 422 00:28:41,410 --> 00:28:45,320 if there is non available you create one and you save it as a text 423 00:28:45,320 --> 00:28:49,250 file on your computer for reuse that way you don't end up 424 00:28:49,770 --> 00:28:50,390 like 425 00:28:51,310 --> 00:28:57,410 being super frustrated of always having to type the same explanation to why this cannot 426 00:28:57,410 --> 00:28:59,880 be done or why this will not be done 427 00:29:00,460 --> 00:29:05,070 and you don't and i'm just saying nope and ending up on news sites 428 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:09,040 for example you could have something that was like this 429 00:29:09,420 --> 00:29:11,500 hi and thanks for reporting this bug 430 00:29:12,030 --> 00:29:17,050 P T V score is currently being replaced by the distributing services which is a 431 00:29:17,050 --> 00:29:22,500 major undertaking an overhaul and we suddenly can't investigate much bucks the talk sure on 432 00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:24,750 the traditional core of it see 433 00:29:25,150 --> 00:29:26,940 we will revisit this 434 00:29:27,350 --> 00:29:31,430 a by the next please which will use gas and hopefully your issue may be 435 00:29:31,430 --> 00:29:33,100 gone by that new release 436 00:29:33,690 --> 00:29:37,450 otherwise we will appreciate your help in testing it out thanks 437 00:29:38,050 --> 00:29:41,620 so that's the kind of thing i don't want to read be typing on the 438 00:29:41,620 --> 00:29:43,300 spot ever again 439 00:29:43,620 --> 00:29:45,690 so i keep it as a text file on my computer 440 00:29:47,650 --> 00:29:49,480 so you should 441 00:29:51,580 --> 00:29:52,170 you should 442 00:29:52,870 --> 00:29:56,980 there we do have ten for advising them back to that but they don't 443 00:29:57,370 --> 00:30:02,070 necessarily corner the specifics or of your project so it's nice to have those custom 444 00:30:02,070 --> 00:30:03,620 kind replies on your computer 445 00:30:04,160 --> 00:30:10,840 for example for the meeting full stuff with custom debugging instructions for your project 446 00:30:13,030 --> 00:30:13,450 and 447 00:30:14,460 --> 00:30:17,610 searching is every nice thing is you can see the bottom of the screen i 448 00:30:17,610 --> 00:30:21,810 have a lot of special saved searches so that's 449 00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:29,060 that seems a bit silly but it's really useful in taking away the pain of 450 00:30:29,060 --> 00:30:33,780 money string the bugs and the patterns and the stuff that for example i want 451 00:30:33,780 --> 00:30:36,620 to see all the bugs that are older than four hundred days and that have 452 00:30:36,620 --> 00:30:37,890 dot have any patch 453 00:30:39,210 --> 00:30:41,140 that's use of useful for finding that 454 00:30:43,820 --> 00:30:48,390 and not just a little edits hyperlink in the book title 455 00:30:48,870 --> 00:30:49,730 like and it's 456 00:30:50,540 --> 00:30:53,050 super hard to spot actually 457 00:30:53,510 --> 00:30:57,470 not many people know it actually exists 458 00:30:57,790 --> 00:31:01,070 you can use that to rename the bug report as the same time as you 459 00:31:01,070 --> 00:31:02,790 are commenting other changes 460 00:31:03,570 --> 00:31:06,650 and then you can use a book good bug title slash summary 461 00:31:07,110 --> 00:31:10,740 so you can make a complete sentence with exact words 462 00:31:11,270 --> 00:31:17,720 and choosing the right words improve fired see it makes to bug user to find 463 00:31:17,720 --> 00:31:18,840 prevents duplicates 464 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:23,360 makes coffee so it's 465 00:31:24,030 --> 00:31:25,350 actually i go 466 00:31:25,860 --> 00:31:30,380 i go a little bit tougher and that i use synonyms like and i think 467 00:31:30,380 --> 00:31:35,110 of all maybe someone is gonna think of that for when searching so i use 468 00:31:35,110 --> 00:31:38,410 multiple words that mean the same thing in that title 469 00:31:39,240 --> 00:31:43,380 for example some example of good and back well good and bad 470 00:31:43,970 --> 00:31:44,760 but titles 471 00:31:46,120 --> 00:31:49,470 all the first one is not that compelling well old one was share my the 472 00:31:49,470 --> 00:31:52,520 stuff the item in the menu lot of life you know is a registered hundred 473 00:31:52,520 --> 00:31:53,140 immensely five 474 00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:57,140 i nine we need to do all initially share make this a menu item if 475 00:31:57,140 --> 00:31:59,150 you know is a well 476 00:32:00,520 --> 00:32:04,680 the second one is more interesting it's a bug in them to this U which 477 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:09,890 was titled show where files come from no or maybe it was just what i 478 00:32:09,890 --> 00:32:13,410 thought at first and then i thought well i'm i need a better it but 479 00:32:13,410 --> 00:32:18,950 title instead provide context allow users to know the path slash location from where files 480 00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:24,100 and folders and search results come from so that way if someone searches for past 481 00:32:24,100 --> 00:32:27,380 or location or search or results 482 00:32:27,930 --> 00:32:31,840 or context you they're gonna find that a real easily 483 00:32:33,210 --> 00:32:34,570 and some other examples 484 00:32:35,750 --> 00:32:37,960 for example the first example 485 00:32:39,460 --> 00:32:45,300 people searching for words such as sound or ring tone or call will find that 486 00:32:45,300 --> 00:32:47,040 about report easily 487 00:32:48,770 --> 00:32:49,560 the 488 00:32:50,380 --> 00:32:56,890 the one near the middle if you search for G E mail i not message 489 00:32:56,890 --> 00:32:59,120 account you're gonna find this but before 490 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:04,110 so keywords a really nice 491 00:33:05,490 --> 00:33:09,400 i use gnome love all the time i don't know might is normal of all 492 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:10,830 the time is make is 493 00:33:11,380 --> 00:33:17,080 is really easy to just type every bugs that are kind of easy 494 00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:22,520 that you don't really have time or motivation to tackle or that you actually you 495 00:33:22,520 --> 00:33:26,140 could do it in two minutes maybe for feature request 496 00:33:26,570 --> 00:33:30,480 but you have more urgent things to do and you kind of want to use 497 00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,940 them to lure people into contributing your project 498 00:33:33,710 --> 00:33:35,490 so i do that's 499 00:33:37,980 --> 00:33:41,910 i'm not sure about help want to but i think it's just for stuff that 500 00:33:41,910 --> 00:33:43,330 you are yourself 501 00:33:43,940 --> 00:33:45,390 unable to tackle 502 00:33:46,420 --> 00:33:52,080 and the distinction between usability and you want reviews of that youtube it send clear 503 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:54,830 but so i think the you wire if you is when you want to call 504 00:33:54,830 --> 00:33:56,270 out and they to the rescue 505 00:33:56,930 --> 00:34:01,070 and there's a bunch of other keywords that are less use 506 00:34:03,290 --> 00:34:06,310 so divide and conquer 507 00:34:07,150 --> 00:34:11,870 don't do it on if possible do it in teamwork maybe would but T I's 508 00:34:11,870 --> 00:34:12,430 days 509 00:34:12,940 --> 00:34:15,070 maybe to google hangouts 510 00:34:15,610 --> 00:34:20,410 or but fests i don't know if that just actually something a word 511 00:34:22,500 --> 00:34:26,610 there is also a to fill it moves are made the script 512 00:34:26,940 --> 00:34:31,770 once some time and to force him to revisit ten bucks a day 513 00:34:32,190 --> 00:34:35,370 i think this is five bucks a day but if you read the code this 514 00:34:35,370 --> 00:34:37,440 is actually it's ten bucks today 515 00:34:39,090 --> 00:34:44,180 so you can grab descriptive your if you need extra something in your face 516 00:34:46,330 --> 00:34:52,410 and well to recap basically you want to need info everything your hands for unsure 517 00:34:52,410 --> 00:34:58,390 about in six months with that special search query you close any remaining needed for 518 00:34:58,390 --> 00:35:00,110 that has not been clearly answered 519 00:35:00,740 --> 00:35:04,140 if the norm box quite doesn't do it for you for free 520 00:35:07,080 --> 00:35:10,910 if you are a developer who knows the project vision 521 00:35:11,930 --> 00:35:17,940 well you have to show some courage and say no or patch or it won't 522 00:35:17,940 --> 00:35:18,380 happen 523 00:35:19,510 --> 00:35:24,010 and if you're not a developer or if you like experience but have jobs 524 00:35:24,640 --> 00:35:30,770 most project of appears would be very happy to have any kind of help interesting 525 00:35:30,770 --> 00:35:31,450 the bug so 526 00:35:32,160 --> 00:35:37,640 you can ask for yes slash no decision on any given bug 527 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:43,450 and then that way you getting some experience in know what's the vision what and 528 00:35:43,450 --> 00:35:44,310 whatnot 529 00:35:46,190 --> 00:35:50,720 so you also have to do render regular cleanup sessions every few months 530 00:35:51,110 --> 00:35:55,460 or when there is a major technologist goal or 531 00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:58,470 idealistic all change going on 532 00:36:00,170 --> 00:36:03,580 so that means that you have to know the know the big projects on your 533 00:36:03,580 --> 00:36:04,800 road map and 534 00:36:06,060 --> 00:36:10,010 see that fortunate is popping up such as hold on touch bugs 535 00:36:10,340 --> 00:36:14,170 core engine changes like P T Vs switch to T S or if you can 536 00:36:14,170 --> 00:36:15,890 use which to web get 537 00:36:16,550 --> 00:36:19,650 and or big you why redesigns 538 00:36:20,110 --> 00:36:20,970 stuff like that 539 00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:27,260 and you can run search queries to search and verify all the bugs that are 540 00:36:27,260 --> 00:36:30,210 older and four hundred days eight hundred days 541 00:36:30,780 --> 00:36:34,620 chances are that they are fixed already they are obsolete 542 00:36:35,270 --> 00:36:37,130 let's go duplicates 543 00:36:37,690 --> 00:36:39,220 or just plain crack 544 00:36:39,650 --> 00:36:44,990 and i mean like wracked is probably like requesting features from the eighties that zero 545 00:36:44,990 --> 00:36:48,020 point one percent of users actually care about 546 00:36:50,550 --> 00:36:56,740 that's it it's nothing revolutionary it's just i hope that's somewhat useful now you can 547 00:36:56,740 --> 00:36:58,970 probably questions comments and insults 548 00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:03,520 and i'm pretty sure i must have overlooked or focus in something 549 00:37:04,090 --> 00:37:05,670 and that's have a chance 550 00:37:19,330 --> 00:37:19,510 but 551 00:37:20,370 --> 00:37:23,450 i also you have very nice lines 552 00:37:24,050 --> 00:37:30,120 and you sounds to do you made an example that people don't even know that 553 00:37:30,120 --> 00:37:35,800 you can change the talking book so but i don't think that's the only problem 554 00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:41,630 not the only a interface problem of books of the i think so it's a 555 00:37:41,630 --> 00:37:44,560 all those stuff would improve the blue 556 00:37:45,010 --> 00:37:48,830 then would it looks a little buttons took something move gonna 557 00:37:50,040 --> 00:37:54,240 thing is that you would have to find the bug tracker that is much better 558 00:37:54,240 --> 00:37:58,880 that numbers about any is if we an open source project actually free an open 559 00:37:58,880 --> 00:38:02,330 source project and can handle huge buffaloes 560 00:38:02,950 --> 00:38:06,930 and or the sysadmins are gonna hate us and 561 00:38:09,820 --> 00:38:15,040 i mean these days many people many projects smaller projects the just to the but 562 00:38:16,080 --> 00:38:20,730 that issues management on get hub or stuff like that but that's proprietary i don't 563 00:38:20,730 --> 00:38:25,980 i don't think it's open source at all and some do it on know nobody 564 00:38:25,980 --> 00:38:30,360 uses source forge are anymore it's so crap and 565 00:38:31,460 --> 00:38:32,410 the thing 566 00:38:34,130 --> 00:38:38,530 i few years ago i have was actually looking for a bug tracker that would 567 00:38:38,530 --> 00:38:43,440 be at least equal in quality and versatility to bugs it out and that could 568 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:49,870 actually installed without that phd on and my home server and i didn't find anything 569 00:38:49,870 --> 00:38:54,460 and actually a book sellers was it a bit too complex for me to install 570 00:38:54,460 --> 00:38:56,000 but i didn't find anything 571 00:38:57,860 --> 00:39:00,820 that i like really much more than books 572 00:39:02,070 --> 00:39:06,540 like there's bookseller lunch but this is it's okay but many people created and there's 573 00:39:06,540 --> 00:39:07,590 google codes 574 00:39:07,990 --> 00:39:09,820 which is not open source i don't 575 00:39:11,170 --> 00:39:16,480 we don't really have i don't know if we have an of the native out 576 00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:16,910 there 577 00:39:17,940 --> 00:39:18,700 if so 578 00:39:19,130 --> 00:39:20,250 why not consider it 579 00:39:22,780 --> 00:39:23,730 out of time 580 00:39:29,360 --> 00:39:34,090 anyway if anybody else has questions or fruit rotten fruit to throw i will be 581 00:39:34,090 --> 00:39:34,670 in the hallway 582 00:39:36,220 --> 00:39:36,610 that's it