1 00:00:09,930 --> 00:00:11,260 alright so 2 00:00:12,120 --> 00:00:17,380 i'll just get started and what people you felling in if you come so i'm 3 00:00:17,380 --> 00:00:21,440 gonna be talking about this project called know mostly it's sort of an awkward name 4 00:00:21,440 --> 00:00:24,760 but donna names not too important 5 00:00:26,090 --> 00:00:30,860 before i get started here though before talk about what i think it's really important 6 00:00:30,860 --> 00:00:39,040 to talk about why am here why i care about what i do and the 7 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:45,920 most important thing that really drives me is free software very passionate about it and 8 00:00:46,660 --> 00:00:47,440 i just think it's 9 00:00:47,880 --> 00:00:50,520 it's always been important sense ever since 10 00:00:51,090 --> 00:00:52,120 which is a men road 11 00:00:53,110 --> 00:00:58,320 started the G P L and before that secondarily i just have a lot of 12 00:00:58,320 --> 00:01:00,410 fun working in this community and 13 00:01:00,740 --> 00:01:04,550 you know hang out with other people in interacting with before the world it's also 14 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:10,930 but fourthly right having a prize linux is very important to me and know was 15 00:01:10,930 --> 00:01:14,370 a very important component of that had enterprise linux 16 00:01:14,890 --> 00:01:16,980 and so when i ship 17 00:01:17,480 --> 00:01:22,500 this product to our enterprise customers i wanna know that known is providing red hat 18 00:01:22,500 --> 00:01:24,460 enterprise linux with high quality software 19 00:01:24,900 --> 00:01:28,730 so all these things are important all these things drive me 20 00:01:31,370 --> 00:01:36,200 so secondarily though it's important is to like restate or assumptions briefly why assume here 21 00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:41,670 well this is all from the website obviously the free software the software freedom part 22 00:01:41,670 --> 00:01:45,860 is in common with michael's the other ones are important 23 00:01:46,500 --> 00:01:53,440 but i wanna dive into this connected aspect "'cause" i think that's really interesting part 24 00:01:53,440 --> 00:01:57,250 it's probably the most interesting to me so this is sort of the way i 25 00:01:57,250 --> 00:02:02,060 the way i think of it is gnome is in ecosystem and we have our 26 00:02:02,060 --> 00:02:07,270 centres of gravity i'll talk about those and then obviously we interact with all different 27 00:02:07,270 --> 00:02:13,120 kinds of other ecosystems so greater or lesser degree looking at this list 28 00:02:13,670 --> 00:02:19,350 you know obviously we share a lot with the canoe project tries in is there 29 00:02:19,350 --> 00:02:25,080 an use this on components right enterprise linux very important to me obviously uses a 30 00:02:25,080 --> 00:02:28,960 lot of know and there is there's 31 00:02:29,460 --> 00:02:33,730 the programming languages icons for roles monos 32 00:02:34,070 --> 00:02:39,250 and other ones like open in embedded which in turn are linked other ecosystems you 33 00:02:39,250 --> 00:02:43,300 know open about is going to wind river and all these other embedded devices and 34 00:02:43,300 --> 00:02:44,110 stuff like that 35 00:02:44,680 --> 00:02:46,150 so 36 00:02:46,830 --> 00:02:49,020 it's important is sort of just visualise 37 00:02:49,490 --> 00:02:54,020 there's all these ecosystems around the gnome is there around the centre grab these that's 38 00:02:54,020 --> 00:02:55,560 the way i think of it 39 00:02:57,700 --> 00:02:58,590 so 40 00:02:59,690 --> 00:03:03,140 with that background what a minute talk about is just to build system 41 00:03:03,680 --> 00:03:09,120 but i'm really excited about it which you guys made notice if you see it 42 00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:09,700 online 43 00:03:10,430 --> 00:03:15,810 because i just kind of always wanted to send it's the in so successful now 44 00:03:16,950 --> 00:03:17,730 so 45 00:03:18,280 --> 00:03:23,980 my goal with this bill system is to focus on owns core or centres of 46 00:03:23,980 --> 00:03:25,490 gravity and 47 00:03:26,840 --> 00:03:33,190 not exclude other things but just make sure that we're doing well what is important 48 00:03:33,190 --> 00:03:40,890 to us and all talk about that and the continuous aspect so it is building 49 00:03:40,890 --> 00:03:45,650 but it's also testing continuously and i'm i could talk for the rest of this 50 00:03:45,650 --> 00:03:50,130 whole session about continuous integration why it's so important but i'm just gonna gloss over 51 00:03:50,130 --> 00:03:50,560 that 52 00:03:51,840 --> 00:03:52,500 so 53 00:03:53,260 --> 00:03:54,650 it's testing 54 00:03:55,120 --> 00:04:00,100 a lot of get repositories a lot of the what makes up cornell so kind 55 00:04:00,100 --> 00:04:04,170 of when i started this project i start from this is sort of minimal system 56 00:04:04,170 --> 00:04:04,900 and build up 57 00:04:05,510 --> 00:04:08,560 from scratch and so i got to know him shell like i wanted to just 58 00:04:08,560 --> 00:04:13,910 minimise interactions with other things so we can again focus on our core aspects so 59 00:04:13,910 --> 00:04:19,520 striking a lot of get repositories for example all hundred and some X or get 60 00:04:19,520 --> 00:04:23,870 repositories most of which are basically just the protocols and never change but 61 00:04:25,480 --> 00:04:29,410 and of course all the know network the think that are important network manager system 62 00:04:29,410 --> 00:04:34,410 do i wanna make sure that known works well with the latest system so tracking 63 00:04:34,410 --> 00:04:36,250 system do you get master very important 64 00:04:37,560 --> 00:04:41,130 the basis done this is sort of stuff like that i just don't care about 65 00:04:41,130 --> 00:04:45,070 like for example an S P R and S open ssl those all come from 66 00:04:45,070 --> 00:04:48,970 of an embedded and basically are ran make some binaries popped out if you're to 67 00:04:48,970 --> 00:04:52,740 work that's about the level of Q A that i gave to the 68 00:04:54,500 --> 00:04:56,910 also crucial is that i have 69 00:04:57,370 --> 00:05:01,910 a sort of course focus with this minutes only targeting virtual eyes environments because 70 00:05:02,510 --> 00:05:07,810 there's many reasons for this one is that doing testing fertilisation is whole much easier 71 00:05:07,810 --> 00:05:11,710 than trying to have like a test lab wired to physical hardware that's a whole 72 00:05:11,710 --> 00:05:17,000 other level of management personalisation it's really easy i can script using you make it 73 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:21,570 do a dance when i wanted to it's great and of course 74 00:05:22,050 --> 00:05:27,370 there's other aspects of this like there's no security updates because you basically need people 75 00:05:27,370 --> 00:05:30,920 there employed and obviously my employer does this 76 00:05:31,350 --> 00:05:37,310 i'm not trying to compete with them obviously so these are that's sort of high 77 00:05:37,310 --> 00:05:42,930 level summary of what this project is and kind of hopefully just is important what 78 00:05:42,930 --> 00:05:43,450 it is not 79 00:05:45,190 --> 00:05:49,450 so the core values of known as i see them obviously we have the G 80 00:05:49,450 --> 00:05:54,000 T K stacked you live is very important to me because i think it 81 00:05:55,280 --> 00:06:01,610 it's a fundamental pieces for writing modern applications it has the event do it has 82 00:06:01,610 --> 00:06:07,000 a file system abstraction a bunch of stuff that really is a core part of 83 00:06:07,000 --> 00:06:11,790 an operating system and i'd like to see it used more particular in red hat 84 00:06:11,790 --> 00:06:12,610 enterprise linux 85 00:06:13,050 --> 00:06:20,680 also in known we have accessibility internationalisation also part of our core values and he's 86 00:06:20,680 --> 00:06:23,250 the secondary list is kind of my list 87 00:06:24,860 --> 00:06:30,490 software engineering very important to me get the all the basics of doing continuous integration 88 00:06:30,490 --> 00:06:33,300 you know just are we leaking memory you know just 89 00:06:33,750 --> 00:06:37,770 again the basics and i'm trying to sort of push for 90 00:06:38,340 --> 00:06:43,100 split between the operating system applications and then always exceptions and i'll talk about this 91 00:06:43,100 --> 00:06:48,340 a bit more later but just to repeat again the goal the system is to 92 00:06:48,340 --> 00:06:53,450 focus on gnomes core values and feedback code continued a feedback as we have been 93 00:06:53,450 --> 00:06:55,990 doing for years back into these other you can systems 94 00:06:57,080 --> 00:06:57,630 so 95 00:06:58,310 --> 00:07:05,210 the non goals no enterprise features no packaging know enterprise features there's no you know 96 00:07:05,210 --> 00:07:08,860 if you want her breast for example that's not something that you know i'm gonna 97 00:07:08,860 --> 00:07:09,170 pass 98 00:07:09,530 --> 00:07:12,450 and a fast home again not something about it 99 00:07:13,200 --> 00:07:15,630 testing G T K G but 100 00:07:18,320 --> 00:07:25,030 so what has a system achieved well it's been online deployed in the known data 101 00:07:25,030 --> 00:07:33,570 centre since december ish and since then it's been building fairly reliably and very importantly 102 00:07:33,570 --> 00:07:37,880 without human intervention i'll talk a little bit about the details of how that works 103 00:07:37,880 --> 00:07:41,490 but a lot of times it's just building one off 104 00:07:41,860 --> 00:07:44,150 doing something else and it's just working fine 105 00:07:44,790 --> 00:07:48,830 but more importantly than the building it's been doing testing and all of talk a 106 00:07:48,830 --> 00:07:50,190 little bit about the details of that 107 00:07:52,250 --> 00:07:56,530 i have some numbers later so this is something that i'm most proud of is 108 00:07:56,530 --> 00:08:00,620 so but i'm from a get pushed or something like do you live in so 109 00:08:00,620 --> 00:08:05,200 when i'm booting a virtual machine is down to minutes now and 110 00:08:06,990 --> 00:08:08,810 it depending on the type of change 111 00:08:10,920 --> 00:08:11,060 like 112 00:08:13,060 --> 00:08:16,230 depending on the type of change i think i could get that down the second 113 00:08:16,230 --> 00:08:18,070 so that's always been michael 114 00:08:18,570 --> 00:08:24,400 it's totally possible the other thing that's really important to me and i talked about 115 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:25,950 this last year a bit but 116 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:32,590 the story for how upgrades works is just crucial for no and 117 00:08:33,410 --> 00:08:38,230 something i just find deeply embarrassing about the current red hat enterprise linux six which 118 00:08:38,230 --> 00:08:42,280 i run is that the upgrade system just doesn't know anything about the browser in 119 00:08:42,280 --> 00:08:45,900 just it's not safe to upgrade it like you know if you're if you lose 120 00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:50,200 power halfway so part of this project has actually been redesigning how it this work 121 00:08:50,200 --> 00:08:54,850 and so using it was three system upgrades actually fully atomic you can pull the 122 00:08:54,850 --> 00:08:57,720 power well they're running and it's just sort of crucial 123 00:08:59,390 --> 00:09:03,840 so even more interesting there's a lot of tests that right now so before developers 124 00:09:03,840 --> 00:09:04,940 kind of ran make check 125 00:09:05,420 --> 00:09:12,470 periodically manually now have automated test automated make checks of a lot of different models 126 00:09:12,470 --> 00:09:14,030 there's 127 00:09:14,560 --> 00:09:19,470 three hundred fifty test binaries which in turn because of G test are in turn 128 00:09:19,470 --> 00:09:23,310 out a lot depends how you measure but this takes a couple minutes all talk 129 00:09:23,310 --> 00:09:28,060 about that later another cool thing is that for a long time unknown would really 130 00:09:28,060 --> 00:09:32,280 test G D M that was kind of ray would run makes you will make 131 00:09:32,280 --> 00:09:36,710 install in his laptop but it's not something that fit the J job model right 132 00:09:36,710 --> 00:09:41,740 J scroll only affects your session and so sometimes G D M well it was 133 00:09:41,740 --> 00:09:46,500 kind of broken but now if G D M breaks all know in minutes ands 134 00:09:46,500 --> 00:09:47,500 that's been working like 135 00:09:48,870 --> 00:09:53,280 so i want talk a little bit about the always three system and how its 136 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:57,090 kind of different from the packaging model because it's 137 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,540 pretty it's pretty crucial to how the system works 138 00:10:01,030 --> 00:10:06,640 so i buster itself is just kind of like a user space filesystem enter and 139 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,650 i like the term get for operating system binaries 140 00:10:11,070 --> 00:10:16,020 it's misleading in some ways but on the ways very accurate so what industry does 141 00:10:16,020 --> 00:10:21,530 is it manages to let you have let's you more parallel blue multiple operating so 142 00:10:21,530 --> 00:10:24,180 multiple versions of multiple operating systems 143 00:10:24,640 --> 00:10:28,670 without affecting the physical root directory of your operating system 144 00:10:29,260 --> 00:10:30,220 so 145 00:10:30,820 --> 00:10:34,730 it's like get in that it's a content address system so it naturally to duplicate 146 00:10:34,730 --> 00:10:40,370 so if you have multi same multiple versions of gnome installed they only use space 147 00:10:40,780 --> 00:10:44,150 a by proportion how many files are different 148 00:10:44,670 --> 00:10:45,310 so 149 00:10:46,530 --> 00:10:50,390 i'll talk a little bit more about that later to it's different though from a 150 00:10:50,390 --> 00:10:55,230 lot of image based appointed systems that happen prototype out there like red hat enterprise 151 00:10:55,230 --> 00:11:00,030 linux have this state was project for a while which was basically a kind of 152 00:11:00,030 --> 00:11:06,410 image of a system where you download new data to block level and you're at 153 00:11:06,410 --> 00:11:09,650 sea is N F S mounted or something like that all those trees different from 154 00:11:09,650 --> 00:11:15,260 that because it does operate at the same level as package mentors do but unlike 155 00:11:15,260 --> 00:11:19,540 package managers it just a done content replication system in this allows a lot of 156 00:11:19,540 --> 00:11:24,860 neat tricks i'm a show those the next slide but straight the way to think 157 00:11:24,860 --> 00:11:30,230 of is really am your image of packages are lots of little filesystems with some 158 00:11:30,230 --> 00:11:33,010 shell scripts that run as root attached in their upload in the internet and you 159 00:11:33,010 --> 00:11:38,170 assemble them on your client machine string model you replicate filesystems from a build server 160 00:11:38,170 --> 00:11:40,160 or you can generate them locally 161 00:11:40,840 --> 00:11:47,840 and it is filesystem independent so it does leverage some butterflies features mostly through G 162 00:11:47,840 --> 00:11:52,940 live you we automatically use the better fess i aukro for a copy and right 163 00:11:53,470 --> 00:11:58,560 type stuff but i think it's sort of important for general purpose system to work 164 00:11:58,560 --> 00:12:01,820 on top of plane yet see for and that's actually what i test on the 165 00:12:01,820 --> 00:12:03,890 most because fifty fours really fast 166 00:12:06,290 --> 00:12:06,940 so 167 00:12:07,390 --> 00:12:11,030 it does have a format for installing on your local system but it also has 168 00:12:11,030 --> 00:12:14,070 an archive format they can run on a web server and that's sort of how 169 00:12:14,070 --> 00:12:18,870 this the build system works as there is than almost resides the build system it 170 00:12:18,870 --> 00:12:24,090 commits to noticed repository and then you can download it directly from just a plain 171 00:12:24,090 --> 00:12:25,570 old apache 172 00:12:27,030 --> 00:12:31,100 so here's some tricks that i wanna make possible and i've been protecting this a 173 00:12:31,100 --> 00:12:36,630 little bit with laura is so i run redheaded present X six on this laptop 174 00:12:36,630 --> 00:12:42,450 because people favour subscriptions any bill fix it but it's obviously important from able need 175 00:12:42,450 --> 00:12:45,740 to be able to run known get master because i wanna be able to contribute 176 00:12:45,740 --> 00:12:49,760 to it and make sure that it still works for the next version so 177 00:12:50,470 --> 00:12:54,620 one the way i plan to have this work is all just have reading representing 178 00:12:54,620 --> 00:12:59,280 six am i root partition and all street just sort of installs inside that without 179 00:12:59,280 --> 00:13:03,630 disrupting it so i can have the know most re what's called build master just 180 00:13:03,630 --> 00:13:08,460 the thing is tracking to get repositories but you could also parallel install multiple versions 181 00:13:08,460 --> 00:13:09,810 of or a very easily 182 00:13:10,430 --> 00:13:15,540 the hard part about this is fixing or P M to not be the lowest 183 00:13:15,540 --> 00:13:21,610 level anymore so that's still in progress but i do have the point where you 184 00:13:21,610 --> 00:13:24,660 can have the base system and then to the newer one and test it working 185 00:13:24,660 --> 00:13:25,080 fine 186 00:13:25,730 --> 00:13:30,950 and when i say five hundred builds here that's really possible because it just comes 187 00:13:30,950 --> 00:13:35,530 down to how many files are different and between 188 00:13:36,010 --> 00:13:40,240 things just don't change that much and there aren't a lot of big binaries so 189 00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:45,330 you really can have five hundred builds installed in more interest a need or trick 190 00:13:45,330 --> 00:13:50,610 that you could do something like automated bisection which is where you know you have 191 00:13:50,610 --> 00:13:56,960 your starting point you say okay i get graphics corruption recently and sort of write 192 00:13:56,960 --> 00:14:00,090 a test binary that maybe just takes a screenshot what for the corruption and then 193 00:14:00,090 --> 00:14:04,320 just keep booting into all these bills and so you find the build it's broken 194 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:08,850 and from there you can from the source code i really need poster trick in 195 00:14:08,850 --> 00:14:11,560 this is kind of part of how the cork you a system works as it 196 00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:15,540 can up update virtual machines while they're entirely offline 197 00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:22,380 and this works basically because it's a don filesystem replication and not like packages where 198 00:14:22,380 --> 00:14:25,160 you have these ritual scripts attached and what they do 199 00:14:25,820 --> 00:14:31,000 was she has none of that and so that's this is actually a very useful 200 00:14:31,000 --> 00:14:36,110 trick in general and like i mentioned before i'd like to see austria eventually slide 201 00:14:36,110 --> 00:14:40,160 underneath these package systems like D package in our P M and all that stuff 202 00:14:40,160 --> 00:14:45,830 where or she would give the parallel booting the atomic upgrades that sort of stuff 203 00:14:47,240 --> 00:14:47,790 to them 204 00:14:49,020 --> 00:14:55,620 so know much three is layered on top of austria and it's very simple there 205 00:14:55,620 --> 00:14:58,920 when i say there are no packages i mean i went through the entire system 206 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:03,030 in eliminated the concept at every level as much as i could to try and 207 00:15:03,030 --> 00:15:07,690 gain reliability and sort of optimised for 208 00:15:08,180 --> 00:15:08,870 automation 209 00:15:09,420 --> 00:15:14,900 so than almost relay or has this thing called a manifest which is literally just 210 00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:17,060 a list of get repositories to build and work 211 00:15:17,610 --> 00:15:23,150 it's very simple and as a consequence of that simplicity it has turned out to 212 00:15:23,150 --> 00:15:30,130 be that has six months of and very reliable promote stories and so if we 213 00:15:30,130 --> 00:15:34,790 look at like example of what the manifest looks like well that's multi one that's 214 00:15:34,790 --> 00:15:39,130 the entirety of what would be a package in my model it's just it's just 215 00:15:39,130 --> 00:15:43,980 to get repository insert it'll to build in this order and that's it that just 216 00:15:43,980 --> 00:15:45,960 means track it master of lib X M L to 217 00:15:46,540 --> 00:15:48,090 and spend enough for quite a while 218 00:15:48,680 --> 00:15:53,530 the component about one i'll talk about this on the next slide but basically that 219 00:15:53,530 --> 00:15:58,690 means this is only for the developer image i can also choose any get revision 220 00:15:58,690 --> 00:16:03,470 to build it anytime unlikely package in our can none of this cares about version 221 00:16:03,470 --> 00:16:07,090 numbers at all so i can be tracking system to get master and say okay 222 00:16:07,090 --> 00:16:10,220 i can no longer log in and the current version which has happened so i 223 00:16:10,220 --> 00:16:15,780 say okay all just tag back to the previous revision builds done like within minutes 224 00:16:15,780 --> 00:16:20,540 it's completely on like the package systems because they have this deep obsession with version 225 00:16:20,540 --> 00:16:21,160 numbers that 226 00:16:21,720 --> 00:16:26,410 permeates every single layer so none of my system cares about version numbers all any 227 00:16:26,410 --> 00:16:28,320 get revision at anytime 228 00:16:29,820 --> 00:16:37,330 and is the spice example is just how configure options and patches work i originally 229 00:16:37,330 --> 00:16:42,750 was trying to only have get repositories and no patches just to force myself to 230 00:16:42,750 --> 00:16:47,660 feed changes back but i sort it's too impractical so i ended up having a 231 00:16:47,660 --> 00:16:48,390 couple patches 232 00:16:48,920 --> 00:16:54,230 so this is something i think really illustrates just how different it was tree model 233 00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:58,270 is from the package thing so on the build server now it's been doing continuous 234 00:16:58,270 --> 00:17:05,020 integration since december right there is over six thousand complete filesystem trees like i haven't 235 00:17:05,020 --> 00:17:08,650 lost any history right so 236 00:17:09,370 --> 00:17:14,300 in the only occupies sixty gigabytes and this is sort of the power T duplication 237 00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:18,750 so in theory again not only can you have five hundred bills locally you could 238 00:17:18,750 --> 00:17:25,310 download in entire history of all the bills from the build server and 239 00:17:25,650 --> 00:17:29,900 you know we'll get those all have links to their sources inside of them 240 00:17:30,670 --> 00:17:31,360 so 241 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:35,070 i just give a lot of flexibility right you can have a sort of a 242 00:17:35,070 --> 00:17:40,010 system and then add remove stuff we're supposed trees all about the files so the 243 00:17:40,010 --> 00:17:43,570 way all history is sort of designed is that sort of having a bunch little 244 00:17:43,570 --> 00:17:48,740 packages you have full complete systems that share space and i would you have multiple 245 00:17:48,740 --> 00:17:53,250 versions of say what i call runtime tree but you have a basic runtime tree 246 00:17:53,250 --> 00:17:56,420 enough to run out and then i have an image div L with all the 247 00:17:56,420 --> 00:18:02,760 developer tools and these just naturally share storage so us three let's you switch between 248 00:18:02,760 --> 00:18:08,650 atomic so i can i normally run the developer imagine my D Ms but you 249 00:18:08,650 --> 00:18:13,050 know sometimes we've had boards where things because of obscure issues only work in the 250 00:18:13,050 --> 00:18:17,970 developer image like a they in package world they needed deborah develop package installed i 251 00:18:17,970 --> 00:18:22,330 can easily just switch back to the runtime tree which effectively hides all the developer 252 00:18:22,330 --> 00:18:23,480 tools so 253 00:18:23,910 --> 00:18:28,910 parallel installing multiple file systems and then besides all the for variance is actually three 254 00:18:28,910 --> 00:18:32,490 it's a the build system outputs a pipeline so is what i call build master 255 00:18:32,490 --> 00:18:36,610 which is all these get ready all these get repositories get bill integrating the build 256 00:18:36,610 --> 00:18:41,070 master all that happens there is there just build a just take the latest get 257 00:18:41,070 --> 00:18:44,840 run make install duster and it's in the tree you can download that that's very 258 00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:45,750 useful obviously but 259 00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:50,240 i don't expect many humans to want to run that directly so there's a secondary 260 00:18:50,240 --> 00:18:55,380 stage which does what i call smoke test and this just updated disk image puts 261 00:18:55,380 --> 00:18:59,900 it union does this appear to let you log if it does that gets attacked 262 00:18:59,900 --> 00:19:01,840 just like get repositories get tagged 263 00:19:02,490 --> 00:19:07,430 and there's a secondary stage which is integrated is that after all the make czech 264 00:19:07,430 --> 00:19:08,750 and stuff like that works but 265 00:19:09,810 --> 00:19:14,600 the way i sort of vision this is there's a like a long pipeline you 266 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:17,680 can imagine of the very top we have build master and then something like red 267 00:19:17,680 --> 00:19:21,850 hat enterprise linux is like way a down there but it is a sort of 268 00:19:21,850 --> 00:19:25,680 long pipeline of extended increasingly extensive testing 269 00:19:26,240 --> 00:19:31,650 but it still really important to be able to run the build master because sometimes 270 00:19:31,650 --> 00:19:34,980 things a broken and i wanna be able to debug it locally so you can 271 00:19:34,980 --> 00:19:38,710 download develop about run gtd on the latest G D M and see what's going 272 00:19:38,710 --> 00:19:38,840 on 273 00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:43,300 and there's also at a task the generates disk images 274 00:19:43,690 --> 00:19:44,750 after something 275 00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:47,560 so on talk about the story of 276 00:19:48,110 --> 00:19:51,470 after you run get push to run in to get repositories that are tracked your 277 00:19:51,470 --> 00:19:52,100 what happens 278 00:19:52,610 --> 00:19:56,540 well as far as i know on the first person ever demand push notification from 279 00:19:56,540 --> 00:20:03,330 don't get so that happens and then we basically do a copy of the get 280 00:20:03,330 --> 00:20:04,730 repository under the build server 281 00:20:05,160 --> 00:20:10,000 so this bill task though important thing to understand is be in a feedback is 282 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:15,150 really important to me versus correctness their different tradeoffs you can make your so the 283 00:20:15,150 --> 00:20:19,820 bill test only rebuild get repository that change because concretely i can't rebuild look at 284 00:20:19,820 --> 00:20:24,210 you take a every time G T K changes it would just massively slow down 285 00:20:24,210 --> 00:20:25,290 the cycle 286 00:20:26,650 --> 00:20:27,530 it does 287 00:20:27,820 --> 00:20:32,760 it assembles a build route which means it's a clean build in this is actually 288 00:20:32,760 --> 00:20:35,790 really important because some things just 289 00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:40,920 it just really increases reliability but this part actually really fast compared to the D 290 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:49,120 package people there and the mocking those sort of tools it averages anywhere from five 291 00:20:49,120 --> 00:20:55,070 to twenty seconds and that's because it uses hard links stuff actually building the thing 292 00:20:55,070 --> 00:20:56,780 it starts from a clean get repository 293 00:20:57,050 --> 00:21:01,420 so this is also kind of important because it'll for example instantly catch a missing 294 00:21:01,420 --> 00:21:02,550 file that you forgot 295 00:21:04,990 --> 00:21:07,840 but for something like to live that's a couple minutes and that's the same with 296 00:21:07,840 --> 00:21:14,000 change builder can whatever and then the result of that install gets stored into repository 297 00:21:14,000 --> 00:21:14,800 and 298 00:21:15,330 --> 00:21:17,180 this is kind of like the package that is 299 00:21:19,540 --> 00:21:23,330 this us the string here than almost three components to of X eighty six sixty 300 00:21:23,330 --> 00:21:29,940 four that's kind of like a again branch big it's torn repository and then we 301 00:21:29,940 --> 00:21:34,640 assemble all of these it just takes a union of all the different components so 302 00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:39,830 i have to live i have lived to stored has their own little filesystem trees 303 00:21:39,830 --> 00:21:41,080 and i just layer them on top 304 00:21:41,620 --> 00:21:47,480 and that's very simple so there's no dependency resolution there's no packaging here and that 305 00:21:47,480 --> 00:21:51,360 takes a minute right now that's something i could speed up but there's different trade 306 00:21:51,360 --> 00:21:55,850 offs there and after this again this is just like 307 00:21:56,870 --> 00:22:00,810 for and i know change of for a very small module this is around two 308 00:22:00,810 --> 00:22:05,740 minutes from get pushed to when you can actually download it reliably 309 00:22:07,810 --> 00:22:12,580 there used to be the concept is yes is the short answer and i used 310 00:22:12,580 --> 00:22:15,910 to try and you triggers on the client side like the idea was that you 311 00:22:15,910 --> 00:22:19,290 download this tree and then afterwards we would run stuff like T update i can 312 00:22:19,290 --> 00:22:20,280 cache on the client 313 00:22:21,340 --> 00:22:23,900 but it's i moved away from that because 314 00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:28,820 then i couldn't do the offline updates on of the M and that was really 315 00:22:28,820 --> 00:22:33,380 crucial so i sort of took the hit of having each multiple versions of the 316 00:22:33,380 --> 00:22:35,460 cached icon caching each tree 317 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,720 it's not that bad and it makes up it's a lot faster 318 00:22:40,250 --> 00:22:43,420 baseball for the client this is one of the things it does slow down the 319 00:22:43,420 --> 00:22:46,970 build process for example on for some things i have to rebuild in a drama 320 00:22:46,970 --> 00:22:51,790 fast whereas at least for their and i don't know about that the end rebuilding 321 00:22:51,790 --> 00:22:55,320 the trim F S on the client every time you crouching so in some cases 322 00:22:55,320 --> 00:22:58,340 i pay a price on the build server where is in the package will you 323 00:22:58,340 --> 00:22:59,170 pay and it's client 324 00:23:01,780 --> 00:23:02,470 that again sorry 325 00:23:05,290 --> 00:23:06,480 how many different triggers 326 00:23:06,910 --> 00:23:10,690 seven or something maybe like for hang go free type 327 00:23:11,450 --> 00:23:13,790 i don't know there's not that many L D config 328 00:23:14,560 --> 00:23:18,140 i mean i can look really but those are pretty fast execute 329 00:23:20,340 --> 00:23:21,070 so 330 00:23:21,990 --> 00:23:27,470 this i'm not excited about just building again i think the passing parts really important 331 00:23:27,470 --> 00:23:32,210 to me so use live guess the vast amounts the filesystems non root 332 00:23:33,550 --> 00:23:37,950 so the smoke test the way it works is we have a cash disk image 333 00:23:37,950 --> 00:23:41,780 representing the runtime tree you know without all the developer tools and then i make 334 00:23:41,780 --> 00:23:45,760 a little copy on write disk and i had some testing stuff for example there's 335 00:23:45,760 --> 00:23:51,350 this service that runs in the virtual guest export the system you journal back up 336 00:23:51,350 --> 00:23:55,300 to the host which then looks for stuff so system he has this nice concept 337 00:23:55,300 --> 00:23:57,120 of message ideas which are 338 00:23:57,740 --> 00:24:03,960 basically Q I Ds universal unique ideas that some event happened right 339 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:08,330 so an example would be system D M it's a message with a particular message 340 00:24:08,330 --> 00:24:09,510 id want something court 341 00:24:10,020 --> 00:24:15,290 so if someone makes a commit to say network manager that "'cause" it just simply 342 00:24:15,290 --> 00:24:16,460 say for startup 343 00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:18,230 the smoke test will fail 344 00:24:18,590 --> 00:24:23,050 for them are patched gnome session timit a particular message id of one of the 345 00:24:23,050 --> 00:24:27,500 things get manages fails like so for example if gnome shell exits with an air 346 00:24:27,500 --> 00:24:31,460 or i know that pretty much instantly on the hose and i can terminate the 347 00:24:31,460 --> 00:24:36,030 V M and then if you see nair see the gnome hackers are see a 348 00:24:36,030 --> 00:24:37,720 red line for the smoke test that's what this 349 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:44,570 so most often it happens when people commit syntax errors in the norm shell javascript 350 00:24:44,570 --> 00:24:45,020 files 351 00:24:45,530 --> 00:24:48,680 lately anyways and i detect that very quickly 352 00:24:49,260 --> 00:24:54,400 and the integration tasks this is something that i think is really need to which 353 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:59,570 is before the gnome release process each operand make czech kind of periodically 354 00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:01,460 randomly 355 00:25:02,070 --> 00:25:05,970 and then theoretically you ran make just check before release so in the know most 356 00:25:05,970 --> 00:25:10,140 remodel i have all the tests almost all the tests that you run and make 357 00:25:10,140 --> 00:25:14,260 czech installed in the system so i go to virtual machine and then i have 358 00:25:14,260 --> 00:25:19,030 a little testing framework that runs all of the tests after nes change so it 359 00:25:19,030 --> 00:25:24,020 change translation update an am show i will rerun all that you a test i 360 00:25:24,020 --> 00:25:29,380 will remind all the clutter test because honestly have plenty of C P U power 361 00:25:29,380 --> 00:25:30,050 and 362 00:25:30,650 --> 00:25:32,800 why not i mean it actually i wanna have 363 00:25:33,290 --> 00:25:37,580 you know a more interesting test scheduling type system but 364 00:25:39,160 --> 00:25:43,300 the build server has thirty two cores sixty four gigs of ram in flies of 365 00:25:43,300 --> 00:25:43,710 the stuff 366 00:25:50,440 --> 00:25:54,190 so what that is occupied so my time for one hours race conditions on the 367 00:25:54,190 --> 00:25:54,790 tests 368 00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:59,640 do you live in particular has a lot of tests with race conditions and 369 00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:01,640 that's 370 00:26:02,060 --> 00:26:04,910 some of those a bit hard to track but fortunately most of them are just 371 00:26:04,910 --> 00:26:06,950 bought some the tests and not actual core code 372 00:26:07,520 --> 00:26:12,760 but i didn't i did find one conceptual issue and you live from tracking down 373 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:13,080 these 374 00:26:13,610 --> 00:26:18,440 but for the most part most the test did work already because the developers we're 375 00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,470 running just not relied continuously 376 00:26:21,890 --> 00:26:23,020 so just very different 377 00:26:24,560 --> 00:26:28,680 so some things that i'd love to do with the system kinda have 378 00:26:30,790 --> 00:26:31,940 twenty minutes okay 379 00:26:32,510 --> 00:26:34,450 okay cool so 380 00:26:34,940 --> 00:26:39,530 open sousa has this really well they have a this thing called open here which 381 00:26:39,530 --> 00:26:43,270 has some really cool features and some kind of weaker features but they have a 382 00:26:43,270 --> 00:26:48,040 really nice but you and i love to have something like that another feature that 383 00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:52,560 i wanna add is mostly has try server so i wanna have does 384 00:26:53,230 --> 00:26:57,580 does this patch break known as a service basically where 385 00:26:59,170 --> 00:27:02,670 i mean there's no reason i couldn't just start building inbound patches and bugs a 386 00:27:02,670 --> 00:27:06,290 lot and testing on so you know one an optional developers can upload 387 00:27:06,890 --> 00:27:07,690 but 388 00:27:07,990 --> 00:27:11,550 bunch of patches and i just take those do a smoke test that sort of 389 00:27:11,550 --> 00:27:17,300 thing would honestly be pretty fast is just the tricky part is sharing stuff between 390 00:27:17,300 --> 00:27:21,140 the different builds like the get all the get repositories are out four gigabytes and 391 00:27:21,140 --> 00:27:24,660 i don't wanna read clone them for each bill but making sure like and linking 392 00:27:24,660 --> 00:27:27,660 currency is just what's kind of starting a little bit from this 393 00:27:29,990 --> 00:27:33,710 and i would love to get into like software engineering stuff and one thing that 394 00:27:33,710 --> 00:27:37,830 i've always wanted as you know just a graph of how much memory were using 395 00:27:37,830 --> 00:27:41,710 on the default login how much memory using one epiphany is and wikipedia i mean 396 00:27:41,710 --> 00:27:42,040 just 397 00:27:42,590 --> 00:27:47,970 also the data there's no reason i can gather this the virtual machine aspect does 398 00:27:47,970 --> 00:27:51,370 the limit kind of the type of performance metrics that i can get like i 399 00:27:51,370 --> 00:27:55,450 can really get approach are because there's all this P N I or activity in 400 00:27:55,450 --> 00:27:59,790 the build server and it would just be too noisy you really need a nice 401 00:27:59,790 --> 00:28:01,510 dedicated harbour lab 402 00:28:05,190 --> 00:28:05,790 probably 403 00:28:13,450 --> 00:28:15,320 that's true 404 00:28:15,880 --> 00:28:16,730 i think 405 00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:21,990 i mean there's so many different ways to do it i don't know if you 406 00:28:21,990 --> 00:28:24,950 knew has the hoax i would need for this i mean that would be a 407 00:28:24,950 --> 00:28:29,160 pretty reliable way to do it i installing agents in the guest is obviously one 408 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,020 way together a lot of stuff but us 409 00:28:31,450 --> 00:28:36,940 then of course you have the heisenberg effect where you you're affecting what you're measuring 410 00:28:36,940 --> 00:28:39,100 right like your agent is using memory your agent 411 00:28:39,660 --> 00:28:40,500 so 412 00:28:42,120 --> 00:28:46,960 i would love to have automated bisection on the build server so you know right 413 00:28:46,960 --> 00:28:51,460 now is if the smoke test fails i basically just run get log and 414 00:28:52,030 --> 00:28:53,860 you know it's usually pretty obvious 415 00:28:54,150 --> 00:28:59,070 who broke it and why but a lot of times it's not actually and just 416 00:28:59,070 --> 00:29:02,460 like a try server there's no reason i couldn't just allocate a builder and say 417 00:29:02,460 --> 00:29:07,030 okay i have this regression range well the know most remodel it's of course over 418 00:29:07,030 --> 00:29:08,600 two hundred get repositories so 419 00:29:09,270 --> 00:29:14,490 handling the multi repository thing with bisection is an interesting problem but again there's no 420 00:29:14,490 --> 00:29:16,930 reason i couldn't do it just haven't gotten around to it 421 00:29:17,820 --> 00:29:20,710 another cool thing is a little bit more blues guys just a sort of live 422 00:29:20,710 --> 00:29:25,770 collaboration setup where the developers actually running get pushed to a branch and we instantly 423 00:29:25,770 --> 00:29:29,350 build it so you have a some work and am shell and it designer and 424 00:29:29,350 --> 00:29:32,830 that you know develop design i want to see the developers doing there's no reason 425 00:29:32,830 --> 00:29:35,930 i can just okay to server that just sort of tried to do that as 426 00:29:35,930 --> 00:29:38,900 fast as possible let them almost live collaborate 427 00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:41,890 so that's 428 00:29:42,270 --> 00:29:47,080 that is not shows the system but i have a lot to talk about where 429 00:29:47,080 --> 00:29:51,060 i see the high level future the system so 430 00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:53,430 obviously 431 00:29:54,230 --> 00:29:59,160 okay i guess i didn't mention this but there is no application installation mechanism in 432 00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:03,670 the system yet because it's a hard problem it's 433 00:30:03,950 --> 00:30:07,410 very hard problem and there's a lot of prior are in that sort of stuff 434 00:30:07,410 --> 00:30:11,820 there's like most all or have re pronounce it there's a bunch is click packaging 435 00:30:12,720 --> 00:30:17,140 is all package on the stuff around and they have different tradeoffs parts 436 00:30:17,690 --> 00:30:19,490 the thing that the thing that 437 00:30:20,390 --> 00:30:25,730 is very important in this discussion i think is to draw a very strong line 438 00:30:26,150 --> 00:30:32,440 it's very strong distinction between free software applications proprietary ones because i think that demand 439 00:30:33,080 --> 00:30:34,720 there's some commonality there but 440 00:30:36,370 --> 00:30:41,550 i don't understand why so many people in free software have this obsession with generating 441 00:30:41,550 --> 00:30:45,980 binaries in caching i mean the most important thing if you're talking about free software 442 00:30:46,370 --> 00:30:51,830 is the source right and who's committing to that and why and not this package 443 00:30:51,830 --> 00:30:57,420 stuff so for free software applications i'd really like to emphasise that sort of stuff 444 00:30:57,420 --> 00:31:02,630 like who's writing this out you know let you let you run the latest version 445 00:31:02,630 --> 00:31:06,480 help you contribute to it that sort of thing 446 00:31:08,270 --> 00:31:10,140 there is the aspect where 447 00:31:10,780 --> 00:31:15,960 it is important to say who built it because you do yes you obviously have 448 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:20,000 to generate binaries to run it but it's still important to say who built it 449 00:31:20,000 --> 00:31:24,570 so for example if you know if we have a system for applications we're doing 450 00:31:24,570 --> 00:31:31,040 continuous innovation and fifteen outputting zip files or something who knows doesn't matter it's still 451 00:31:31,040 --> 00:31:35,640 important say build by know because you have to trust the builder 452 00:31:36,180 --> 00:31:40,840 and so i think i think the aspect of the intermediary is still important 453 00:31:42,780 --> 00:31:46,750 again i would love to do continuous integration for the applications i sort of paved 454 00:31:46,750 --> 00:31:52,030 and added some core apps to the manifest so you know obviously epiphany is in 455 00:31:52,030 --> 00:31:55,420 their gnome terminal the system would be completely useless without it 456 00:31:56,730 --> 00:31:57,830 and those are kind of 457 00:31:58,360 --> 00:32:02,060 those are available but the really tried you wanna get to is where you can 458 00:32:02,060 --> 00:32:03,920 remove the web browser from the operating system 459 00:32:04,490 --> 00:32:10,070 apparently that's important and just you know peer review i mean this is the same 460 00:32:10,070 --> 00:32:13,830 thing i'd like to see for more for the core operating system is just emphasising 461 00:32:13,830 --> 00:32:15,750 the peer aspect of free software 462 00:32:17,790 --> 00:32:20,350 you know again who who's doing this and why 463 00:32:22,330 --> 00:32:24,240 okay 464 00:32:25,290 --> 00:32:30,980 so obviously this is gonna kind of controversial topic throughout norman it really gets to 465 00:32:30,980 --> 00:32:35,200 the heart of the distinction between what an operating system is and what it distribution 466 00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:37,910 is and that sort of thing which is 467 00:32:38,570 --> 00:32:44,180 where do you draw the line for what lives where right what might applications have 468 00:32:44,180 --> 00:32:44,780 to bundle 469 00:32:45,240 --> 00:32:49,230 so stuff like the backchannel to i'm not a big fan of the back small 470 00:32:49,230 --> 00:32:54,330 to i really wish that it'd been but you will nice to a library before 471 00:32:54,330 --> 00:32:54,990 so i 472 00:32:56,510 --> 00:33:01,620 i you know do we except that is barbora base platform and it's ugly api 473 00:33:01,620 --> 00:33:06,150 i don't know stuff like hire O obviously we made the decision 474 00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:11,440 this is par the platform it's part of G T K spell checking is pretty 475 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:17,080 much perfect example of something where well we have some libraries out there may not 476 00:33:17,080 --> 00:33:17,680 be great 477 00:33:18,930 --> 00:33:21,570 whether i could should with the base system or not i don't know 478 00:33:23,730 --> 00:33:26,860 and of course even if we're just talking about court know how long do we 479 00:33:26,860 --> 00:33:30,560 should you take a to do we encourage do we allow 480 00:33:31,380 --> 00:33:37,370 allows only should application developers still target in some circumstances and of course we're talking 481 00:33:37,370 --> 00:33:41,200 to do you for enterprise and how long would we should G T K three 482 00:33:42,690 --> 00:33:46,820 well so the way i define operating system is something your application will run on 483 00:33:46,820 --> 00:33:47,520 for ever 484 00:33:47,930 --> 00:33:48,980 and this 485 00:33:49,330 --> 00:33:53,690 if we remove stuff then we're not really an operating system anymore kind of moving 486 00:33:53,690 --> 00:33:59,070 back towards a distribution model so i don't have answers to these questions 487 00:34:00,920 --> 00:34:04,740 a sort of punch on it and said okay well i'm just going to 488 00:34:05,900 --> 00:34:10,010 to you know to make an operating system we need to have basic quality assurance 489 00:34:10,010 --> 00:34:14,450 and so that's what i've been working on for a while like just fixing race 490 00:34:14,450 --> 00:34:19,650 conditions and the G let us and make sure making sure that worshipping platform the 491 00:34:19,650 --> 00:34:22,060 can be used to build applications and how all that works 492 00:34:22,710 --> 00:34:26,470 so a lot of questions and so there this 493 00:34:26,860 --> 00:34:32,350 so i think proprietary out the needs a proprietary applications are totally different 494 00:34:33,830 --> 00:34:34,860 and 495 00:34:36,060 --> 00:34:36,900 i mean 496 00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:39,070 for one thing they 497 00:34:39,600 --> 00:34:43,170 their time to an architecture usually if we're talking about me to binaries and all 498 00:34:43,170 --> 00:34:45,700 of a sudden you're kind of in the windows world where you have 499 00:34:46,270 --> 00:34:49,860 applications that were targeting X eighty six and then if we wanna move to new 500 00:34:49,860 --> 00:34:51,450 hardware platform we can do it 501 00:34:53,140 --> 00:34:56,450 i think that sort of thing are few icgs can just sort of deal with 502 00:34:56,450 --> 00:35:02,420 it so i'm not too focused again on the proprietary applications basically what i want 503 00:35:03,260 --> 00:35:06,460 i think it's important to enable people to run proprietary software 504 00:35:07,110 --> 00:35:10,220 if but not encourage necessarily and so 505 00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:15,590 i'd i'm gonna focus my time and just the core free software gnome applications because 506 00:35:15,590 --> 00:35:18,120 that's again why i'm here from again that's all 507 00:35:20,140 --> 00:35:22,800 so this is something that i was actually hacking on the plane 508 00:35:24,370 --> 00:35:28,930 and which is basically just system D for the user session this is kind of 509 00:35:28,930 --> 00:35:32,230 just a for corporate system feature but 510 00:35:33,450 --> 00:35:37,850 using this we can actually this would be something that would help enable running proprietary 511 00:35:37,850 --> 00:35:38,980 applications because 512 00:35:39,430 --> 00:35:43,450 for that use we sort of to spend boxing take mechanism and how that would 513 00:35:43,450 --> 00:35:44,160 work 514 00:35:45,540 --> 00:35:46,560 is pretty interesting 515 00:35:47,820 --> 00:35:50,600 a long time ago i helps port S U X to daddy and so i 516 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,560 have a fair amount of expertise in that and i think it makes sense to 517 00:35:54,560 --> 00:35:58,870 use the ceilings for part of it but the portals work is sort of essential 518 00:35:58,870 --> 00:36:04,150 for user interaction pieces so you have a sort of unchanging applications must never do 519 00:36:04,150 --> 00:36:11,100 this type layer and then sort of maybe more enjoyed or i was like dynamic 520 00:36:11,100 --> 00:36:14,290 application asks to do this type of model and that's portals 521 00:36:15,620 --> 00:36:19,630 but i want to do this we really need system the in the session because 522 00:36:19,630 --> 00:36:26,320 it enables grouping binaries for an application like right now one things this sort of 523 00:36:26,320 --> 00:36:30,900 core part of the known three model was it's application focus and the way we 524 00:36:30,900 --> 00:36:31,680 match 525 00:36:32,290 --> 00:36:38,100 the X window created by nap to the process is actually just really horrible and 526 00:36:38,100 --> 00:36:42,190 like to move away from it so getting applications inside to see group we just 527 00:36:42,190 --> 00:36:44,740 P a fundamental enabler for moving towards this 528 00:36:45,220 --> 00:36:46,890 O S application split 529 00:36:47,690 --> 00:36:52,750 i love to unify the idea operating system extensions of stuff like proprietary and video 530 00:36:52,750 --> 00:36:56,280 drivers what i think i was and always extension the package model socks for this 531 00:36:56,280 --> 00:37:00,320 because obviously what you really want is you want to have your system and then 532 00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,330 you say okay i'm gonna stalin be a driver and ineffectively rebates whereas right now 533 00:37:04,330 --> 00:37:08,840 the package manager will say okay well this package needs this and what you upgrade 534 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:14,280 when with really important is to enable someone say upgrade the base toss up in 535 00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:19,350 video driver try nouveau does the new version working not have the package manager you 536 00:37:19,350 --> 00:37:23,300 know complaining over here so that's a know it's extension fonts that sort of stuff 537 00:37:23,300 --> 00:37:29,110 are you can plug ins or was extensions and unified those with than so extensions 538 00:37:31,480 --> 00:37:33,330 so in conclusion 539 00:37:33,670 --> 00:37:37,230 core qualities important free software is very important to me but 540 00:37:37,750 --> 00:37:41,890 quality is basically job one if we don't do that 541 00:37:42,870 --> 00:37:44,550 it's not really doing anything 542 00:37:46,070 --> 00:37:50,340 my provide same application framework and i there is the science just the 543 00:37:51,790 --> 00:37:56,130 the core how her they distributed just making it easy to 544 00:37:58,210 --> 00:38:02,250 getting exposed to the auto tools really rough for a lot of application developers and 545 00:38:02,250 --> 00:38:07,880 so i was still allow people a package thing so concretely applications just still have 546 00:38:07,880 --> 00:38:11,690 a make install type stage i think but it's 547 00:38:12,130 --> 00:38:15,340 the build systems really do need to of all to the point where 548 00:38:16,040 --> 00:38:22,250 it is possible and easy to read an application without being exposed to all those 549 00:38:22,250 --> 00:38:22,760 words 550 00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:29,270 and of course absolutely essential to this is just maintaining our links with the various 551 00:38:29,270 --> 00:38:34,160 downstream projects like that in reference links i mean all that stuff that was in 552 00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:39,110 the beginning but i have again tried to focus this is 553 00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:43,170 it's not i'm not trying to be daddy and so it's just focusing on a 554 00:38:43,170 --> 00:38:45,410 quality so making sure that's good 555 00:38:45,870 --> 00:38:47,720 and then feeding changes elsewhere 556 00:38:49,520 --> 00:38:53,180 and then if you wanna know more about the project these are some knowing less 557 00:38:54,730 --> 00:38:58,910 and i'm usually available on our see any colours should be a male 558 00:38:59,550 --> 00:39:01,410 so that's it 559 00:39:02,100 --> 00:39:04,870 i know i kind of blew through this but there any questions 560 00:39:16,790 --> 00:39:17,370 okay 561 00:39:19,560 --> 00:39:25,130 sure so the question was about don't reproduce ability so particularly like are the binaries 562 00:39:25,130 --> 00:39:26,230 identical that so 563 00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:37,630 okay so all the binary stolen use repository i didn't really answer this question is 564 00:39:37,630 --> 00:39:41,800 probably to talk about what this other project nix O S does this one ones 565 00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,340 i was looking at one as do research for this project so next does checksums 566 00:39:46,340 --> 00:39:50,410 to but they do they check some all the input to a bill so for 567 00:39:50,410 --> 00:39:55,090 example if an environment variable changes that outputs a different checksum obviously and they're obsessed 568 00:39:55,090 --> 00:39:58,470 at the stuff but there's a lot of things that sabotage that like python P 569 00:39:58,470 --> 00:40:03,110 Y C files have the timestamp of the file the referencing which is useful useless 570 00:40:03,110 --> 00:40:08,390 my system it hasn't been in important because i've money a disk space 571 00:40:09,500 --> 00:40:09,970 so 572 00:40:14,650 --> 00:40:21,520 so okay sorry i see we're more as you know story each generated tree is 573 00:40:21,520 --> 00:40:28,230 the manifest a actually what i call results manifest so if you remember back is 574 00:40:28,230 --> 00:40:28,880 this 575 00:40:29,620 --> 00:40:34,740 back here so the result manifest is like the hard but be part of buzz 576 00:40:34,740 --> 00:40:39,800 example word has the exactly provisions of the get repository that we used to build 577 00:40:39,800 --> 00:40:46,460 the street that doesn't necessarily make it reproduceable exactly because i'm not putting in the 578 00:40:46,460 --> 00:40:51,650 manifest what the host whole system uses open embedded is a cross compiler crossed environment 579 00:40:51,650 --> 00:40:55,920 so i start format having for enterprise linux for which is what spinner that number 580 00:40:55,920 --> 00:40:59,580 are runs and then across builds G C from that so if you want to 581 00:40:59,580 --> 00:41:05,060 fully reproducible build i'd probably have to put in the manifest built from whatever and 582 00:41:05,060 --> 00:41:06,200 that's something i can improve 583 00:41:07,610 --> 00:41:08,890 and back on 584 00:41:11,500 --> 00:41:11,850 okay 585 00:41:17,930 --> 00:41:20,010 i still i could be loud enough 586 00:41:21,270 --> 00:41:25,770 so you say you're not rebuilding like when you rebuild you decay you don't rebuild 587 00:41:25,770 --> 00:41:26,020 web 588 00:41:26,730 --> 00:41:30,870 right exact you have like a stuff throw weight might be considered of probably method 589 00:41:30,870 --> 00:41:34,450 of doing that of saying you know i'm not going to keep that will result 590 00:41:34,450 --> 00:41:38,360 from this but i would like now that i know that i changed you live 591 00:41:38,360 --> 00:41:42,230 and we run integration tests later but that only it says 592 00:41:42,570 --> 00:41:45,180 whether the binaries you produce this point i'm work against 593 00:41:45,800 --> 00:41:48,810 the current that you would you have installed not whether they will have and we 594 00:41:48,810 --> 00:41:53,500 build a that's right and i have had problems with that like a completely right 595 00:41:53,500 --> 00:41:57,530 now so name under a little annoying like when cargo bonsai name i have to 596 00:41:57,530 --> 00:42:01,000 force a rebuild of things and so the way that works is at the bottom 597 00:42:01,000 --> 00:42:04,360 i just have this thing i call bill that thought so if i updated version 598 00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:09,670 and i say nine type and say gee the G T K three here that 599 00:42:09,670 --> 00:42:13,470 will just force to rebuild of those things a build server will just to me 600 00:42:13,470 --> 00:42:14,160 it's catches 601 00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:19,130 and i do that well as you can see twenty times in the last six 602 00:42:19,130 --> 00:42:23,910 months which that's pretty reasonable to be perfectly honest it's worked well 603 00:42:24,950 --> 00:42:25,620 okay 604 00:42:29,260 --> 00:42:34,870 how do you put and it's also am doing maybe analysis of the point is 605 00:42:34,870 --> 00:42:36,940 to make sure that we're not we can maybe a 606 00:42:37,610 --> 00:42:38,860 for sure 607 00:42:40,410 --> 00:42:44,060 it's kind of helps a lot the integration test phase helps a lot so the 608 00:42:44,060 --> 00:42:47,930 in the i am to you will broke well right now we would need though 609 00:42:47,930 --> 00:42:52,270 we would run binaries that you live itself bill but if 610 00:42:52,600 --> 00:42:55,930 for example i would know if you live broke in the and weighted probe G 611 00:42:55,930 --> 00:42:56,370 T K 612 00:42:56,990 --> 00:43:01,240 as long as they didn't both get rebuild and but as far as more stack 613 00:43:01,240 --> 00:43:05,660 analysis type stuff like i do your thinking me like upstream tracker dot org or 614 00:43:05,660 --> 00:43:11,380 whatever it like they have some or and it this beta the less expose and 615 00:43:11,380 --> 00:43:13,650 you pick a tent it's a be a 616 00:43:14,250 --> 00:43:15,500 being able to not this 617 00:43:15,830 --> 00:43:16,340 okay 618 00:43:17,280 --> 00:43:24,370 i mean even if a test or something but we criminalise between editions actually idea 619 00:43:24,370 --> 00:43:30,510 of a big difference their previous symbol question two signatures like right well course 620 00:43:30,820 --> 00:43:35,420 the libraries themselves do have maybe i mean do you live has a list of 621 00:43:35,420 --> 00:43:39,810 export it simple so it's very difficult to break you pi thereby 622 00:43:40,240 --> 00:43:43,310 i mean it's a question of what we do with the data like i could 623 00:43:43,310 --> 00:43:46,090 generate that it but what do we do with that you know do i try 624 00:43:46,090 --> 00:43:49,890 to go back to you know daniel and say okay you about you probably decimal 625 00:43:49,890 --> 00:43:53,680 to maybe i don't probably be very useful for bias 626 00:43:53,940 --> 00:43:55,290 i don't know i just haven't 627 00:43:55,690 --> 00:43:57,710 i it hasn't come up i guess they 628 00:43:58,890 --> 00:44:02,850 so that when you know just them so just when this question and then you 629 00:44:02,850 --> 00:44:05,030 can go and that's your questions if you to quit here 630 00:44:06,700 --> 00:44:11,160 i can build a what's my question which is weeks scroll i will be break 631 00:44:11,160 --> 00:44:11,630 something 632 00:44:12,050 --> 00:44:16,650 so see you at the moment opinion of ceasing you bring can exploit so on 633 00:44:16,650 --> 00:44:17,480 a scale 634 00:44:18,010 --> 00:44:18,680 right 635 00:44:20,190 --> 00:44:23,550 i don't know i mean it can obviously big claw everything jasper watch is the 636 00:44:23,550 --> 00:44:28,350 output to and you know he looks at would make sense to say it sent 637 00:44:28,350 --> 00:44:29,480 me email 638 00:44:30,480 --> 00:44:31,880 i could well 639 00:44:32,310 --> 00:44:36,560 i think that was potentially come out of automated bisection because the thing is things 640 00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:41,290 can break for reasons that are not careful that happens pretty often like system he 641 00:44:41,290 --> 00:44:47,300 has a very complex build system and tool chain bugs sometimes just bite and 642 00:44:47,860 --> 00:44:52,350 you know is it a tool chain issue "'cause" they use some F function sections 643 00:44:52,350 --> 00:44:56,180 but it doesn't matter but basically it's not always there for the be like you 644 00:44:56,180 --> 00:45:00,790 need a human site actually a stipulation i mean 645 00:45:01,590 --> 00:45:05,400 but i certainly could harvest email addresses from the get repositories and 646 00:45:06,230 --> 00:45:12,650 i mean broken that it doesn't usually break that off one email that i maybe 647 00:45:12,650 --> 00:45:16,980 it's well it's funny like some days things just break left and right and other 648 00:45:16,980 --> 00:45:20,910 times it'll go three days and i just don't even touch it and just finally 649 00:45:23,780 --> 00:45:25,840 right i think that's it right thank you all for coming