1 00:00:10,170 --> 00:00:13,670 so i'm i don't i totally don't even need this microphone "'cause" i'm actually really 2 00:00:13,670 --> 00:00:19,620 loud what we're gonna talk about today is tag to pdfs and all the we're 3 00:00:19,620 --> 00:00:26,190 gonna mention accessibility a little bit is actually is an accessibility presentation and the fact 4 00:00:26,190 --> 00:00:32,570 that the accessibility logo appears on every single slide is just me spacing that out 5 00:00:32,570 --> 00:00:37,680 and using the same temp let's i always still but our agenda is to talk 6 00:00:37,680 --> 00:00:43,310 about tag pdfs what they are why we want them and how to make them 7 00:00:43,310 --> 00:00:46,870 because once you find out what they are and why we want them 8 00:00:48,650 --> 00:00:52,320 finding out that it's really easy to make them is gonna be quite 9 00:00:53,750 --> 00:00:57,770 important in my opinion we talk about the current status of a project are actually 10 00:00:57,770 --> 00:01:03,030 going to be talking about which is implementing detect pdf support and then we're gonna 11 00:01:03,740 --> 00:01:08,120 demos are always subject to the double what fact and what we would be able 12 00:01:08,120 --> 00:01:13,810 for you is totally screenshot of so we have screen shots we can provide demos 13 00:01:13,810 --> 00:01:18,660 upon request and you fix the crash so we should be okay without but we 14 00:01:18,660 --> 00:01:19,860 just don't see it as 15 00:01:21,450 --> 00:01:23,730 you know absolutely park actually necessary 16 00:01:24,850 --> 00:01:28,050 okay so attack P D that's kind of like a P D F on steroids 17 00:01:28,050 --> 00:01:33,190 it has a lot more stuff than it lot of met information in particular as 18 00:01:33,190 --> 00:01:37,690 you might of guessed from the name tag pdf it has tax element tags very 19 00:01:37,690 --> 00:01:41,780 similar and in some cases exactly the same as you see in H T M 20 00:01:41,780 --> 00:01:42,270 L 21 00:01:42,870 --> 00:01:45,810 there are also I Ds for every single element 22 00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:51,590 there's alternative text if it's provided and there's also i have to kinda google to 23 00:01:51,590 --> 00:01:56,220 find out exactly what this means from the spec replacement text for symbols the spec 24 00:01:56,220 --> 00:01:57,200 expect pretty 25 00:01:57,750 --> 00:02:03,840 flexible but the first thing or the one above it alternative text for images and 26 00:02:03,840 --> 00:02:08,670 other things like that those are like big phrases and descriptive 27 00:02:09,330 --> 00:02:11,160 whereas for symbols 28 00:02:12,290 --> 00:02:17,250 you could characters a single letter that's a graphic those kind of things so the 29 00:02:17,250 --> 00:02:21,820 replacement text is assumed according to the spec to be a single character and that's 30 00:02:21,820 --> 00:02:23,660 what the differences between those two things 31 00:02:24,480 --> 00:02:27,590 okay right we want them and i told you i was gonna talk a little 32 00:02:27,590 --> 00:02:34,670 tiny bit about accessibility what's motivated or implementing the tag speak with the tag P 33 00:02:34,670 --> 00:02:35,440 D F's 34 00:02:35,940 --> 00:02:37,360 is accessibility 35 00:02:37,680 --> 00:02:42,170 because there there's a couple problems with advance as you guys may have noticed from 36 00:02:42,170 --> 00:02:43,490 our recent friends of good 37 00:02:43,800 --> 00:02:46,680 for into can campaign and i can't 38 00:02:48,100 --> 00:02:48,760 relate 39 00:02:51,890 --> 00:02:54,380 it's so know just been fired from the board 40 00:02:55,950 --> 00:02:59,380 for the friends of get numb campaign it's just a big old we need to 41 00:02:59,380 --> 00:03:04,670 make the stuff accessible and part of that is no i believe zero accessibility right 42 00:03:04,670 --> 00:03:09,780 now part of it is for non tacked pdfs getting the minimal level of accessibility 43 00:03:09,780 --> 00:03:14,460 i want that will give users who are blind is accessed at about the level 44 00:03:14,460 --> 00:03:15,280 of G at it 45 00:03:16,260 --> 00:03:20,570 and as you know G at it doesn't have things like heading and list items 46 00:03:20,570 --> 00:03:24,270 and stuff like that it's just text so having just text is better than having 47 00:03:24,270 --> 00:03:24,940 nothing at all 48 00:03:25,770 --> 00:03:29,430 and we're not gonna talk about that aspect of what we've been working on but 49 00:03:29,430 --> 00:03:35,470 there is so much semantic and structural information in X M L mark 50 00:03:36,130 --> 00:03:42,060 marked up mark up marked up documents like that something is a heading level one 51 00:03:42,060 --> 00:03:45,540 or heading level to or a table and how many rows and columns are in 52 00:03:45,540 --> 00:03:47,710 that table these were all things this site as you 53 00:03:48,540 --> 00:03:51,160 these my stuttering a sighted users 54 00:03:51,570 --> 00:03:55,740 we just look at and them you know we know what's going on if you're 55 00:03:55,740 --> 00:04:00,170 user who was blind your screen reader needs to present that in speech and in 56 00:04:00,170 --> 00:04:04,840 braille and in order for that to happen we need access to all this that 57 00:04:04,840 --> 00:04:10,710 information and we don't have it because popular has absolutely no support for tech pdfs 58 00:04:13,540 --> 00:04:17,400 by the way thanks again friends of you know this is lots of all some 59 00:04:17,400 --> 00:04:21,810 stuff related to this whole project is happening because of that campaign 60 00:04:22,860 --> 00:04:23,480 now 61 00:04:24,620 --> 00:04:28,300 honestly i could care less about some of these things i am totally motivated by 62 00:04:28,300 --> 00:04:32,970 accessibility but i think the rest of the community should really care about tech pdfs 63 00:04:32,970 --> 00:04:37,040 for because of the items on this slide you know we keep talking about you 64 00:04:37,040 --> 00:04:37,590 know 65 00:04:38,870 --> 00:04:41,670 are we still calling it can all my last but we're talking about getting on 66 00:04:41,670 --> 00:04:44,470 tablets and smaller devices with smaller screens 67 00:04:44,980 --> 00:04:49,150 and if we can a tree flow these documents on you know a little and 68 00:04:49,150 --> 00:04:53,930 very phone or if i don't phone that looks like my hundred phone if you 69 00:04:53,930 --> 00:04:58,160 know the whole pdf experts is gonna suck on the mobile platform so if we 70 00:04:58,160 --> 00:05:01,910 have tag pdfs we could really easily do re well 71 00:05:04,660 --> 00:05:10,070 then the rest is the copy paste and export if i select text from an 72 00:05:10,070 --> 00:05:14,680 a beautifully market pdf that be really cool if i don't lose not just that 73 00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:15,650 formatting 74 00:05:16,130 --> 00:05:18,330 but you know the fact that something is a heading 75 00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:20,980 the fact that something is a table if i just get taxed 76 00:05:21,530 --> 00:05:24,210 i might have to reformat it or at that point i might just you know 77 00:05:24,210 --> 00:05:26,500 it might not be worth that i can type fast 78 00:05:28,730 --> 00:05:33,440 okay so there's hundreds in the bad news because this is on the right if 79 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:34,910 you use lee profits 80 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:38,850 it and i'll show you a screenshot and then it is like to burke easy 81 00:05:38,850 --> 00:05:42,860 it's like one step to export your document to tag pdf 82 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:47,270 so that means if you care about accessibility if you want the reef well if 83 00:05:47,270 --> 00:05:50,800 you want to copy and paste it's a single step but that this is like 84 00:05:50,800 --> 00:05:54,920 no little supports this alex said that a bunch of research the other day about 85 00:05:54,920 --> 00:05:58,350 that's it it's like and they work now but i did it's literally were just 86 00:05:58,350 --> 00:06:02,020 like no it's you know sky like soup nazi on seinfeld that X P D 87 00:06:02,020 --> 00:06:05,720 F for you know there is and you know better than i do some people 88 00:06:05,720 --> 00:06:06,690 are interested 89 00:06:07,630 --> 00:06:12,960 that in fact is possible indication of will be looks at the documents is fine 90 00:06:12,960 --> 00:06:19,240 because i've so you can just have to unpack pdf you can this problem to 91 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:25,070 all the T and they usually we ought to us but pca that means that 92 00:06:25,070 --> 00:06:28,460 will docks cost all the is to all the information format 93 00:06:29,480 --> 00:06:33,900 i don't know we looks can supplant respond to that idea but in because of 94 00:06:33,900 --> 00:06:38,600 lactic there are a lot of interesting that because after all for example in that 95 00:06:38,600 --> 00:06:39,360 kind of mix 96 00:06:41,820 --> 00:06:45,840 they want to i mean is in is in a lot of faculties is mandatory 97 00:06:45,840 --> 00:06:52,430 product to see have to complain it pdfs so they need that they actually really 98 00:06:52,430 --> 00:06:53,840 interested because we want 99 00:06:55,090 --> 00:06:57,400 mathematics be accessible 100 00:06:58,050 --> 00:07:03,390 something that is not happening right now in the case of it works is also 101 00:07:03,390 --> 00:07:06,860 happened same you when you say that's a P D F is there is no 102 00:07:06,860 --> 00:07:14,220 provision to greatest target pdf bought you can spoke to all the we develop this 103 00:07:14,220 --> 00:07:17,330 great that we did show them what i mean is that well just to do 104 00:07:17,330 --> 00:07:21,470 is there so they are not using that and then there a lot of tools 105 00:07:21,470 --> 00:07:24,880 that great E D S but they don't have in your children in the rest 106 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:28,960 of we don't know them tutors if i would have leds thereof 107 00:07:29,610 --> 00:07:35,560 tools but then find then we will ask i would be an effective because they're 108 00:07:35,560 --> 00:07:37,810 this is what happened with other tools to 109 00:07:38,520 --> 00:07:42,000 i was kind of funny i said you know alex can guess this list of 110 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:44,850 all the tools and it's kind of like okay all these are now may i 111 00:07:44,850 --> 00:07:45,870 stop now 112 00:07:46,320 --> 00:07:49,810 it's like you can stop so there may be other tools out there that do 113 00:07:49,810 --> 00:07:54,350 have this support that we found one it has perfect quick support i got a 114 00:07:54,350 --> 00:07:57,260 whole bunch that doubt and then alex got tired 115 00:07:59,560 --> 00:08:04,220 okay i'm hoping a you can ever get like an entire dialogue and big enough 116 00:08:04,220 --> 00:08:08,090 but i'm hoping you can see the one little thing that's czech that's attacked pdf 117 00:08:08,090 --> 00:08:11,030 and so basically all you have to do with sleeper office and this is for 118 00:08:11,030 --> 00:08:17,550 brighter calc and it impress and presumably the others you just have to choose export 119 00:08:17,550 --> 00:08:22,320 to P D F from the file menu dialogue pops up czech tack pdf as 120 00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:27,080 it wanna point out is that right about that czech boxers pdf slash a one 121 00:08:27,080 --> 00:08:30,510 and a all standards need to have lots and lots of letters and numbers on 122 00:08:30,510 --> 00:08:34,490 them i don't know why that is actually you know we could be said that 123 00:08:34,490 --> 00:08:39,350 attacked pdf a skylight pdf on steroids well this P D F a one a 124 00:08:39,350 --> 00:08:42,280 it's kinda like pad pdf on steroids 125 00:08:42,840 --> 00:08:47,050 and what it gives your excuse me the objective is for searching and quantum plugged 126 00:08:47,050 --> 00:08:49,720 re proposing document content 127 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:54,080 and it includes and i don't understand this and standards at all i would think 128 00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,140 that be would include a rather than a including be but for some reason the 129 00:08:58,140 --> 00:09:03,970 one a includes one be and that like it's put on the slide it's about 130 00:09:03,970 --> 00:09:05,380 document appearance 131 00:09:06,060 --> 00:09:10,490 and we're gonna come back to that point in the minute structure and hierarchy you 132 00:09:10,490 --> 00:09:15,410 know other child objects you know what are the parent objects you know what it 133 00:09:15,410 --> 00:09:16,740 is actually a tree 134 00:09:17,510 --> 00:09:23,730 tacked pdf which we've already talked about unicode character maps to be perfectly frank id 135 00:09:23,730 --> 00:09:28,800 to go read the big sixty enter to know exactly what that means and what 136 00:09:28,800 --> 00:09:33,140 is expected and language specification just what like which is something 137 00:09:35,070 --> 00:09:38,180 so in terms of the current status of the work that's been done 138 00:09:39,010 --> 00:09:42,670 popular right now some of that's and master a some of it's in a branch 139 00:09:42,670 --> 00:09:46,150 but right now the entire document structure of tact pdfs 140 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:52,410 it's been implemented for poplar works posing all of this information for popular G lab 141 00:09:54,070 --> 00:09:58,310 and there's some that if you who are like popular geeks there's all these different 142 00:09:58,310 --> 00:10:05,720 tools to examined documents and information about the altars and all that stuff and those 143 00:10:05,720 --> 00:10:09,650 tools of been modified to expose this information so that you can 144 00:10:10,750 --> 00:10:14,960 verify that attack pdf is coming out the way you expect and popular 145 00:10:16,540 --> 00:10:22,030 okay we have not yet got into doing anything with this in advance that's gonna 146 00:10:22,030 --> 00:10:26,510 be the next main step and i put in parentheses you know then doing this 147 00:10:26,510 --> 00:10:31,380 for accessibility because again this is this is what motivated all of this work 148 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:35,310 it's not what's also about all of this work that's what motivated it and we 149 00:10:35,310 --> 00:10:40,120 can't of course expose what is not in advance to assistive technologies but that's the 150 00:10:40,120 --> 00:10:43,190 next priority after about some 151 00:10:43,900 --> 00:10:47,620 and terms of all the support that we've done the reason i put a question 152 00:10:47,620 --> 00:10:50,190 mark by the are one be part 153 00:10:50,920 --> 00:10:54,930 the one be part of the standard is because as you'll see in the fake 154 00:10:54,930 --> 00:10:56,480 demo screenshot that's 155 00:10:56,720 --> 00:11:02,510 we're already totally now able and exposing or preserving rather of the formatting 156 00:11:03,070 --> 00:11:07,690 so what are not we done every last aspect of the standard i couldn't tell 157 00:11:07,690 --> 00:11:08,130 you 158 00:11:08,430 --> 00:11:12,500 i again i would have to read that standard very carefully but at least functionally 159 00:11:12,500 --> 00:11:14,710 i believe that we have all that implemented 160 00:11:15,620 --> 00:11:21,120 that pdf again is already done word exposing the hierarchy since i'm not entirely sure 161 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:26,220 what the official definition and spec requirements are for unicode character maps i can tell 162 00:11:26,220 --> 00:11:26,610 you 163 00:11:26,980 --> 00:11:27,430 and we 164 00:11:29,160 --> 00:11:35,520 and we are already exposing these the language if there is a language associated with 165 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:36,130 an element 166 00:11:37,910 --> 00:11:41,490 so i kind of already set this particular next steps are to do the a 167 00:11:41,490 --> 00:11:42,590 bedside work 168 00:11:43,030 --> 00:11:45,300 expose that to assistive technologies 169 00:11:45,650 --> 00:11:49,820 and figure out exactly what the status is what the standard the last thing on 170 00:11:49,820 --> 00:11:54,400 their this is i think it'd be one of those patches welcome some people just 171 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:59,750 i personally lovely profits some people don't because it's is big joining at the time 172 00:11:59,750 --> 00:12:06,500 slow creature there is nothing we don't have time or the expertise quite frankly the 173 00:12:06,500 --> 00:12:12,820 motivation to add export support in all of the tools that are currently no but 174 00:12:12,820 --> 00:12:16,630 if you sell your favourite tool on there like that the community would welcome a 175 00:12:16,630 --> 00:12:17,290 patch 176 00:12:22,160 --> 00:12:25,210 and information with the previous like that about 177 00:12:27,760 --> 00:12:29,470 sport in the 178 00:12:30,250 --> 00:12:35,850 to use in the that previous this is something like the F on that you 179 00:12:35,850 --> 00:12:36,830 can problem 180 00:12:37,130 --> 00:12:40,480 when we were when we were talking a lot about sort of also well we 181 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:44,140 use it is that they did he say that the well the results they were 182 00:12:44,140 --> 00:12:44,560 not 183 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:51,270 your it is but i seen having target the previous for really target previous you 184 00:12:51,270 --> 00:12:56,080 because one of the tools web upgrading the and the same in this a way 185 00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:58,530 tools upgrade pdfs 186 00:12:58,930 --> 00:13:02,480 well not with the really what is allow great impacted bps because 187 00:13:03,220 --> 00:13:09,100 the P D of re a previous will not able to with a that's what 188 00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:14,870 so i want one is the other reason that colours mention is that it's like 189 00:13:14,870 --> 00:13:18,380 he said nobody knows what attack pdfs and that was one of the things that 190 00:13:18,380 --> 00:13:21,810 motivated me you know telling you what it will be a why you should want 191 00:13:21,810 --> 00:13:26,180 to make add pdfs but i would kinda argue that even if all you guys 192 00:13:26,180 --> 00:13:30,850 start making packed pdfs there is actually still a lot of usage going out there 193 00:13:30,850 --> 00:13:36,990 because the legal requirements you know if you are legally bound to have all of 194 00:13:36,990 --> 00:13:42,370 your documents accessible euro you already know that had pdfs you are already producing them 195 00:13:42,370 --> 00:13:48,140 so even if no one else is making had pdfs governments on educational institutions another 196 00:13:48,140 --> 00:13:53,970 big people who could be sued for not providing documents that are accessible they're already 197 00:13:53,970 --> 00:13:56,570 doing that at pdf colours to know that 198 00:13:58,680 --> 00:14:02,840 okay and how going to the point of this is like that is getting because 199 00:14:02,840 --> 00:14:06,600 this funny because now is them moment that we talk about 200 00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:08,220 what is the world that 201 00:14:09,020 --> 00:14:14,370 we have done but the three that within that do that but what so we 202 00:14:14,370 --> 00:14:17,410 would like science i we imprisoned impetus 203 00:14:18,540 --> 00:14:23,190 just heated up to work because we are really hard not experience are doing document 204 00:14:23,190 --> 00:14:23,700 or something 205 00:14:24,390 --> 00:14:27,210 we are calling about him document but just every night 206 00:14:27,910 --> 00:14:32,020 so i thought that was most appropriate to go sweetie 207 00:14:32,650 --> 00:14:39,280 we thought that was a perfect the best for him and we also though the 208 00:14:39,280 --> 00:14:42,950 world was made by kind of you have at least a month in a piranha 209 00:14:42,950 --> 00:14:46,450 beams are you was a review want to call so 210 00:14:47,010 --> 00:14:52,220 i'd say and if someone is that some of the cold is right now i 211 00:14:52,220 --> 00:14:58,510 did but we were repository right now we so it's up to parents in 212 00:14:58,810 --> 00:15:02,540 you also in some but just some box and in fact some of the bass 213 00:15:02,540 --> 00:15:04,650 were and a 214 00:15:05,490 --> 00:15:10,430 quickly is this we we're where we were providing the demonstration because we were 215 00:15:11,210 --> 00:15:18,360 using tools in fact the fish buttons about providing the tools with the support of 216 00:15:18,360 --> 00:15:23,710 the or the target pdf and the other this at a little bar about a 217 00:15:23,710 --> 00:15:25,810 meeting is it huh 218 00:15:28,470 --> 00:15:30,580 right now 219 00:15:31,180 --> 00:15:34,720 but in the previous weeks kind of the of was W more the call so 220 00:15:34,720 --> 00:15:39,330 some of the buttons on that on that runs is already a master and is 221 00:15:39,330 --> 00:15:41,480 going is and only be remote 222 00:15:42,870 --> 00:15:47,430 and we have a that is life i mean we are we are the know 223 00:15:47,430 --> 00:15:51,480 that and miss sorting a how i passed 224 00:15:52,130 --> 00:15:57,590 how corpus is a task on light of quality strong what's easy but we want 225 00:15:57,590 --> 00:16:00,990 to we added up that as light because 226 00:16:01,540 --> 00:16:03,260 we wanted to and 227 00:16:04,030 --> 00:16:08,410 give is probably to that is not a trivial task 228 00:16:09,420 --> 00:16:13,650 and you have thought that is almost as much work import we have called on 229 00:16:13,650 --> 00:16:16,650 them but we really because this is also in a important 230 00:16:18,290 --> 00:16:20,490 as we are as the others 231 00:16:21,220 --> 00:16:27,880 the support them pop of course that means that eventually some other a three communities 232 00:16:27,880 --> 00:16:30,330 but so what communities like cute well 233 00:16:30,780 --> 00:16:33,640 date is work and we say so we have 234 00:16:34,430 --> 00:16:38,070 it is another example of whatever you some with all the official what communities 235 00:16:40,640 --> 00:16:44,580 mm what i've this is what i'm saying i mean it's not very important how 236 00:16:44,580 --> 00:16:48,910 much the lines about i mean the model sentences and i some popular three thirty 237 00:16:48,910 --> 00:16:53,710 thousand nice some public really means that is not really a at work bone at 238 00:16:53,710 --> 00:16:54,580 this is moment 239 00:16:55,830 --> 00:16:56,430 so 240 00:16:57,680 --> 00:17:03,980 S in the advertisements what we have it for what we have after so before 241 00:17:03,980 --> 00:17:09,630 we have i to call pdf info that just went something in for a lot 242 00:17:09,630 --> 00:17:14,170 of P D F also to cetera and then we have some tools that's great 243 00:17:14,170 --> 00:17:15,820 is based on the P D F 244 00:17:16,410 --> 00:17:18,660 it quit is based on the text 245 00:17:19,100 --> 00:17:25,060 but was think there's without stupor and then we have another to that quick a 246 00:17:25,060 --> 00:17:25,930 nice meal 247 00:17:26,490 --> 00:17:27,930 in fact this is 248 00:17:28,490 --> 00:17:32,220 well the reason we have that we mentioned that tool is because now event on 249 00:17:32,220 --> 00:17:37,230 the look at least some people ask i would like to with the P D 250 00:17:37,230 --> 00:17:40,410 F that i come to that with it being is not about what is what 251 00:17:40,410 --> 00:17:40,900 we have to 252 00:17:41,590 --> 00:17:46,760 and use it all cases is other people recommends to use P D F please 253 00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:51,450 mail to take the pdf on which is to me a but the problem with 254 00:17:51,450 --> 00:17:55,530 that is that you get a P D F without not something that you get 255 00:17:55,530 --> 00:17:57,400 that it's to me it without noticed after 256 00:17:59,700 --> 00:18:00,950 and this is a sample 257 00:18:01,690 --> 00:18:06,570 i you at the i don't have to concede that during the pdf with here 258 00:18:06,570 --> 00:18:10,380 somewhere that the stuff and at the right it's the mail that you 259 00:18:11,180 --> 00:18:16,530 but before that you have work and you know it is the same at with 260 00:18:16,530 --> 00:18:22,830 i'm not and formatting at all i mean okay you have the ball but engaged 261 00:18:22,830 --> 00:18:26,860 me that you have you don't have the information about the kids for example if 262 00:18:26,860 --> 00:18:28,400 you if you use a table 263 00:18:29,870 --> 00:18:33,210 with that tool you who you will have only they can to do that they 264 00:18:34,770 --> 00:18:35,320 yes 265 00:18:36,410 --> 00:18:40,320 just print just without any formatting so you don't know if you aren't it is 266 00:18:40,320 --> 00:18:43,090 the only in this a controller on the second 267 00:18:44,460 --> 00:18:45,500 and the second column 268 00:18:48,170 --> 00:18:49,060 well this is 269 00:18:50,050 --> 00:18:54,670 exactly this is what i was saying i thought also a 270 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:59,730 well i think that's probably for you would be for you can just a breeze 271 00:18:59,730 --> 00:19:02,940 but if you if you thing they do pdf 272 00:19:03,830 --> 00:19:08,070 when we pulled is this you can see at the right that you have here 273 00:19:08,070 --> 00:19:12,570 is but only text a lot right so is without any formatting at all 274 00:19:15,060 --> 00:19:18,200 so i can as a so we were saying we are going to support 275 00:19:18,870 --> 00:19:23,500 and sorry we as are the and countless other that report of target pdf from 276 00:19:23,500 --> 00:19:28,960 popular so they are so it'd to similar to use that support so i'll be 277 00:19:28,960 --> 00:19:31,840 and weighted up to call pdfs to know that 278 00:19:32,730 --> 00:19:36,140 if you don't do that there is one but you can things that this the 279 00:19:36,140 --> 00:19:39,230 stupor the just to the to be have can things 280 00:19:40,070 --> 00:19:42,150 so i've have some 281 00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,780 sorry some you have a chance to be pdf in for you know the two 282 00:19:46,780 --> 00:19:49,450 point just trooper finally 283 00:19:50,090 --> 00:19:55,370 to our problems did it you know emotive to display to here 284 00:19:57,270 --> 00:19:57,530 sure 285 00:19:58,640 --> 00:20:00,760 sure we have the same example 286 00:20:01,440 --> 00:20:05,560 okay left you have to pdf and the right to have this communal but now 287 00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:05,770 you 288 00:20:06,460 --> 00:20:08,170 it meant to system to maybe so 289 00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:14,210 well this is what i alluded to before it that if you remember before the 290 00:20:14,210 --> 00:20:18,400 all of the formatting was lost that this gets back to that one be standard 291 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:23,020 that i need to read very carefully to see if we're not implementing any aspect 292 00:20:23,020 --> 00:20:28,440 of it but this time the you know like the italics a man heading to 293 00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:32,340 that carried over so there's and like i said there's an excellent chance the bulk 294 00:20:32,340 --> 00:20:35,460 of thee one be standard is now implemented as well 295 00:20:42,030 --> 00:20:43,240 i don't is working 296 00:20:45,890 --> 00:20:51,310 and this is a screenshot of and the tool i mean and in that here 297 00:20:51,310 --> 00:20:54,070 is easy if there's to see that now we have 298 00:20:54,840 --> 00:20:59,600 a is true or of the document because we will have different blocks with this 299 00:20:59,600 --> 00:21:04,650 H one means he there so we can see that it meant based approach but 300 00:21:04,650 --> 00:21:07,140 probably it's you have to see with 301 00:21:08,310 --> 00:21:11,140 with the department did you know 302 00:21:11,490 --> 00:21:13,190 and we can see at 303 00:21:13,980 --> 00:21:17,550 there right about of the right the screenshot that we can see this is to 304 00:21:17,550 --> 00:21:20,050 prove using a at review 305 00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,400 that show that you we have 306 00:21:23,060 --> 00:21:27,360 a best and it meant that is heating and element that's a bar find them 307 00:21:27,360 --> 00:21:28,760 and that's another here 308 00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:37,140 we can see a next argument the sample with these items but i've got women 309 00:21:37,140 --> 00:21:37,720 thing 310 00:21:38,590 --> 00:21:43,310 the then the nist at this to put in fact it is what i'm saying 311 00:21:43,310 --> 00:21:48,710 with the previous business well we have the tooling was suggest getting the text a 312 00:21:48,710 --> 00:21:52,920 printing need what printing on is pushing it but without mundane interceptor 313 00:21:57,960 --> 00:22:02,550 and this is the case of the of i think that as you can see 314 00:22:02,550 --> 00:22:05,970 bits to me and maintains is that was a table we have to can do 315 00:22:05,970 --> 00:22:09,640 we have all the roles and with a put this is a tools we only 316 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:11,220 half it text 317 00:22:14,800 --> 00:22:16,010 you but 318 00:22:16,710 --> 00:22:17,140 hello 319 00:22:17,810 --> 00:22:23,350 you can see the and if you for that is a terminal the mel to 320 00:22:23,350 --> 00:22:25,700 that you to maintaining the different 321 00:22:26,490 --> 00:22:28,990 for all okay there's from the table 322 00:22:31,050 --> 00:22:32,610 i think that 323 00:22:33,180 --> 00:22:37,320 as you can see we are not doing a club time you know because we 324 00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:42,010 have a really expose some these kind of presentations so we know that when you 325 00:22:42,010 --> 00:22:48,170 do that we have minutes work it just depends to quest so we had this 326 00:22:48,170 --> 00:22:51,230 question service as an see as i say you can 327 00:22:51,860 --> 00:22:54,300 in service we are going to probably space 328 00:22:55,010 --> 00:22:59,630 as limestone you contributing to tell you one so and you question 329 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:14,530 i you said one of the benefits of the tags was 330 00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:15,680 for refund 331 00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:17,850 and me and just 332 00:23:18,290 --> 00:23:22,440 like revealing the ignorance here but i thought that one of the benefits of P 333 00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:24,000 F was the it was always 334 00:23:25,390 --> 00:23:29,750 like print perfect basically me view it so i was wondering like how the idea 335 00:23:29,750 --> 00:23:32,740 every for fits into like the typical pdf 336 00:23:33,370 --> 00:23:37,460 is case like it like the fallback mode or is it 337 00:23:38,420 --> 00:23:42,640 i mean this is funny because when we were we have some for sits for 338 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:47,110 that one people website the same the same on the forums was saying was saying 339 00:23:47,110 --> 00:23:52,420 that we did well not sort of all that maybe a puppy da was maintaining 340 00:23:52,420 --> 00:23:53,570 that there for you 341 00:23:54,110 --> 00:23:54,550 but 342 00:23:55,470 --> 00:23:56,990 busily that in the end 343 00:23:57,670 --> 00:24:02,650 you want to see the document don't know but there's no way of what is 344 00:24:02,650 --> 00:24:05,900 the size of your screen show in what i mean is 345 00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:12,080 for some local in this it's true that it doesn't make sense tutor for all 346 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:13,510 but from others 347 00:24:14,160 --> 00:24:17,960 i mean it will be really strange if you need to force to share to 348 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:22,800 make a sort of this illness after don't want to see that probably 349 00:24:24,300 --> 00:24:30,260 and thought there's some doubts about how to do that a how to probably that 350 00:24:30,260 --> 00:24:34,280 but maybe a is having some 351 00:24:34,860 --> 00:24:39,920 something similar to what it's demand has right now i mean in addition 352 00:24:40,070 --> 00:24:45,160 and estimate happens and you have the roles are hard you move the mobile phone 353 00:24:45,160 --> 00:24:47,090 is a about overflowing 354 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:48,210 that this 355 00:24:48,940 --> 00:24:50,260 i mean i know that this 356 00:24:51,310 --> 00:24:54,690 it's just train is actually say because they are you know idea of the P 357 00:24:54,690 --> 00:24:59,180 D F was that but we also need to like take into account that these 358 00:24:59,700 --> 00:25:02,390 that pdfs support was obvious 359 00:25:03,970 --> 00:25:08,700 rescinded is less a presently you have if you have for the some yes 360 00:25:09,200 --> 00:25:13,630 but they needed in the same way that there are you know that a proposal 361 00:25:13,630 --> 00:25:20,030 to pdf was not was it was having something so more for really that that's 362 00:25:20,030 --> 00:25:26,760 great but size then it just added to about to something like something more well 363 00:25:26,760 --> 00:25:29,630 how to i don't know how to say that my documents friendly 364 00:25:34,830 --> 00:25:40,610 gonna say something and that might be totally not real that like kerry as if 365 00:25:40,610 --> 00:25:43,900 you a say a bullet is last 366 00:25:44,290 --> 00:25:49,070 or a table and none of the if the fact that that's it actual you 367 00:25:49,070 --> 00:25:54,140 know structural list or actual structural table is not known 368 00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:58,860 what how was that tax cut around is it going to manage to and didn't 369 00:25:58,860 --> 00:26:03,600 itself so it's not under the bullet on the second line or not and if 370 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:07,570 it's just you know where i mean i think lists items are gonna be the 371 00:26:08,090 --> 00:26:09,930 the biggest use case but 372 00:26:10,490 --> 00:26:16,840 my going but you know tape i'm so you know what i'm really liked so 373 00:26:16,840 --> 00:26:18,260 that which is why i wear 374 00:26:18,780 --> 00:26:19,450 sunglasses 375 00:26:20,740 --> 00:26:21,540 i just was wondering 376 00:26:23,820 --> 00:26:24,930 no if you will 377 00:26:27,380 --> 00:26:30,640 i don't know we are written that actually question more 378 00:26:32,990 --> 00:26:34,860 i guess i can see 379 00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:36,140 we are getting 380 00:26:38,180 --> 00:26:38,520 one 381 00:26:39,210 --> 00:26:43,180 i just to repeat myself i think the but what instances the biggest one because 382 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:44,930 in 383 00:26:45,620 --> 00:26:50,670 we can actually put these on the screen but before we did attack pdf support 384 00:26:50,670 --> 00:26:54,700 people like character is strictly a character just like any in a and B S 385 00:26:54,700 --> 00:27:00,880 C or whatever and wrapping that taxed will work but if we don't treat it 386 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:03,950 as an actual list item the indentations gonna be screwed up and it's gonna look 387 00:27:03,950 --> 00:27:04,300 ugly 388 00:27:08,780 --> 00:27:11,180 i have another question to actually 389 00:27:12,380 --> 00:27:13,750 so you should a list of 390 00:27:14,510 --> 00:27:15,460 of tools the 391 00:27:16,290 --> 00:27:18,620 can help protect pdfs 392 00:27:19,670 --> 00:27:21,360 earlier in your presentation 393 00:27:24,170 --> 00:27:26,020 i was wondering if you also look that 394 00:27:27,260 --> 00:27:27,770 other 395 00:27:28,440 --> 00:27:32,900 consumers of P F it support take pdfs and puts the support like 396 00:27:33,490 --> 00:27:33,890 for 397 00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:39,280 so like the rear probably supports I P F but also like be this pdf 398 00:27:39,280 --> 00:27:44,470 that yes support type you have placed in that also sort of drive adoption 399 00:27:44,960 --> 00:27:45,310 something 400 00:27:48,540 --> 00:27:51,090 really don't question because i think that we didn't get it 401 00:27:51,730 --> 00:27:56,890 so those tools are tools that make pdfs there and support I P F 402 00:27:57,400 --> 00:28:00,810 what tools that read P F support i our which class okay 403 00:28:01,630 --> 00:28:02,280 we did we 404 00:28:03,080 --> 00:28:08,170 but in the little world and if just what was in the pitch so we 405 00:28:08,170 --> 00:28:08,800 will 406 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:13,520 it means will be the first one that will support that because okay we did 407 00:28:13,520 --> 00:28:18,860 it is that because this is official where eve and so you know which will 408 00:28:18,860 --> 00:28:27,360 talk about our spares but and in the rest of the world show windows are 409 00:28:27,360 --> 00:28:28,000 that the stuff 410 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:33,110 and i've got we will unlock what about the right there is 411 00:28:33,550 --> 00:28:34,870 the they wouldn't course 412 00:28:36,020 --> 00:28:43,620 for example because of well support a spell target pdf 413 00:28:44,840 --> 00:28:51,360 and at this address something that provided above is that is that is that how 414 00:28:51,360 --> 00:28:52,030 it but also that 415 00:28:53,510 --> 00:28:59,710 that we sorry so about be provided a planning or something like that to make 416 00:28:59,710 --> 00:29:02,200 these we have to pdf 417 00:29:02,880 --> 00:29:04,340 and now 418 00:29:04,740 --> 00:29:07,610 because so we have these already doing that so 419 00:29:08,420 --> 00:29:09,520 i mean thought in 420 00:29:10,070 --> 00:29:10,550 a lot of 421 00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:18,820 and government pages talking about and how the pdf should be so should be accessible 422 00:29:18,820 --> 00:29:24,280 base a use accurate right that will be sort of that these target and 423 00:29:25,280 --> 00:29:30,340 make sure that using that growing up right that we is a screen we are 424 00:29:30,340 --> 00:29:32,040 that it it's work fine 425 00:29:33,650 --> 00:29:37,890 and we there was of the pose well it is happening all is the same 426 00:29:38,320 --> 00:29:43,370 the saying that means that they don't support like pdf in but for number one 427 00:29:43,370 --> 00:29:47,420 of the samplers is this pdfs to do it it's to use of the word 428 00:29:47,420 --> 00:29:52,810 for windows will about us is aware set of these is having the same thing 429 00:29:52,810 --> 00:29:57,320 this is but it's also say is a spot to pdf but is not target 430 00:29:57,320 --> 00:29:57,970 so 431 00:29:59,600 --> 00:30:03,140 well we well this work with a tinge finished 432 00:30:04,170 --> 00:30:08,680 we mean that up to fish or what communicate we will have one tool that 433 00:30:08,680 --> 00:30:12,980 properly as well too bad pdf that is little things i want to that is 434 00:30:12,980 --> 00:30:17,960 the teams that probably we target pdfs that would be more or less the same 435 00:30:17,960 --> 00:30:22,530 situation that in the winter that is probably right about it 436 00:30:22,780 --> 00:30:23,330 we 437 00:30:25,290 --> 00:30:29,930 that the difference in terms of windows is that windows has had the ability with 438 00:30:29,930 --> 00:30:35,760 it screen readers to provide access to tag pdf something to lose track but over 439 00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:39,400 again kate now and that you know i know this is an accessibility talk again 440 00:30:39,400 --> 00:30:45,060 that that's i can't separate myself from accessibility it's really embarrassing when people in the 441 00:30:45,060 --> 00:30:49,390 work a list say you know i can use our cup with firefox and leave 442 00:30:49,390 --> 00:30:52,200 are often do all this stuff and people say well what do you do to 443 00:30:52,200 --> 00:30:55,550 read pdfs and some people say you know do the P D F to H 444 00:30:55,550 --> 00:30:58,480 T M L that you lose all the heading information but what a lot of 445 00:30:58,480 --> 00:31:01,580 people say as i bit into windows and i used jaws 446 00:31:02,050 --> 00:31:07,030 so we were solving well we're actually by not having pack pdf support we're actually 447 00:31:07,030 --> 00:31:10,830 sending people off to use non free software and now we're solving this problem 448 00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:18,970 okay and a question sorry we are we are similar question 449 00:31:19,850 --> 00:31:20,840 okay thank 450 00:31:35,690 --> 00:31:40,230 what do you think it next most important thing is to accessibility 451 00:31:41,850 --> 00:31:44,310 in get a but not really with you have 452 00:31:50,290 --> 00:31:52,630 exactly and the next is sort of the 453 00:31:54,160 --> 00:31:57,830 if i have a real that was will verify from on this where it was 454 00:31:57,830 --> 00:32:03,540 not able to go to a presentation about well to the president about was able 455 00:32:03,540 --> 00:32:11,100 to or worse will because the next thing for the next challenge for the so 456 00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:16,650 this team will be the will answer about right now it is pi two 457 00:32:18,080 --> 00:32:22,330 well it's with X in five first of them this is with X so that 458 00:32:22,330 --> 00:32:24,270 made this bass will be 459 00:32:25,670 --> 00:32:29,010 making sure that all other stuff works with waylon 460 00:32:29,740 --> 00:32:37,120 in fact agree you have to dean is somewhat behind the other team's because as 461 00:32:37,120 --> 00:32:40,890 far as the normal but down from can still people use 462 00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:47,580 grading us some kind of this buddy mental bronze we the way that's about so 463 00:32:47,580 --> 00:32:51,750 that means that without if you use the plants you can there is 464 00:32:52,310 --> 00:32:56,800 probably is cost problem or something like that i don't know well the that if 465 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:58,790 you something to but i a list they 466 00:32:59,240 --> 00:33:01,680 they will provide to the users 467 00:33:02,160 --> 00:33:05,650 i way to this can so long way to and we don't have that on 468 00:33:05,650 --> 00:33:08,540 it's pi so this is the next thing 469 00:33:11,610 --> 00:33:13,110 is okay thank 470 00:33:15,340 --> 00:33:16,570 and more question 471 00:33:26,850 --> 00:33:32,410 i so i just i mean i know idea not has been video so does 472 00:33:32,410 --> 00:33:37,460 when they is this is related it and to something like pdf innovations is it 473 00:33:37,460 --> 00:33:41,990 could be used to something similar or if it's at a bit and related thing 474 00:33:43,550 --> 00:33:44,160 so 475 00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,600 i think that the different stuff and i think you know five anything that you 476 00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:51,310 bins racial but adaptation 477 00:33:52,620 --> 00:33:52,810 so 478 00:33:54,310 --> 00:33:57,880 well i we supported a little bit but there was a google summer of code 479 00:33:59,220 --> 00:34:03,850 project that sounds like it might not continue to do some work on that and 480 00:34:03,850 --> 00:34:09,590 there's been a lot of discussion around making i don't know the specifics but around 481 00:34:09,590 --> 00:34:14,290 making annotations way more cool so it sounds like they're that we have a little 482 00:34:14,290 --> 00:34:17,660 support for it but we need a whole lot more but in terms of since 483 00:34:17,660 --> 00:34:23,590 i've ovaries turned this talk into an accessibility talk now annotations to my knowledge has 484 00:34:23,590 --> 00:34:29,000 nothing to do with tack pdfs in terms of accessibility after the annotations get implemented 485 00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,910 we're gonna probably have to do a similar accessibility implementation 486 00:34:33,490 --> 00:34:34,250 okay thank you 487 00:34:41,960 --> 00:34:42,990 so i think that 488 00:34:44,020 --> 00:34:47,850 no well thank you for being if you have been every question 489 00:34:48,780 --> 00:34:49,730 you are