so i'm i don't i totally don't even need this microphone "'cause" i'm actually really
loud what we're gonna talk about today is tag to pdfs and all the we're
gonna mention accessibility a little bit is actually is an accessibility presentation and the fact
that the accessibility logo appears on every single slide is just me spacing that out
and using the same temp let's i always still but our agenda is to talk
about tag pdfs what they are why we want them and how to make them
because once you find out what they are and why we want them
finding out that it's really easy to make them is gonna be quite
important in my opinion we talk about the current status of a project are actually
going to be talking about which is implementing detect pdf support and then we're gonna
demos are always subject to the double what fact and what we would be able
for you is totally screenshot of so we have screen shots we can provide demos
upon request and you fix the crash so we should be okay without but we
just don't see it as
you know absolutely park actually necessary
okay so attack P D that's kind of like a P D F on steroids
it has a lot more stuff than it lot of met information in particular as
you might of guessed from the name tag pdf it has tax element tags very
similar and in some cases exactly the same as you see in H T M
L
there are also I Ds for every single element
there's alternative text if it's provided and there's also i have to kinda google to
find out exactly what this means from the spec replacement text for symbols the spec
expect pretty
flexible but the first thing or the one above it alternative text for images and
other things like that those are like big phrases and descriptive
whereas for symbols
you could characters a single letter that's a graphic those kind of things so the
replacement text is assumed according to the spec to be a single character and that's
what the differences between those two things
okay right we want them and i told you i was gonna talk a little
tiny bit about accessibility what's motivated or implementing the tag speak with the tag P
D F's
is accessibility
because there there's a couple problems with advance as you guys may have noticed from
our recent friends of good
for into can campaign and i can't
relate
it's so know just been fired from the board
for the friends of get numb campaign it's just a big old we need to
make the stuff accessible and part of that is no i believe zero accessibility right
now part of it is for non tacked pdfs getting the minimal level of accessibility
i want that will give users who are blind is accessed at about the level
of G at it
and as you know G at it doesn't have things like heading and list items
and stuff like that it's just text so having just text is better than having
nothing at all
and we're not gonna talk about that aspect of what we've been working on but
there is so much semantic and structural information in X M L mark
marked up mark up marked up documents like that something is a heading level one
or heading level to or a table and how many rows and columns are in
that table these were all things this site as you
these my stuttering a sighted users
we just look at and them you know we know what's going on if you're
user who was blind your screen reader needs to present that in speech and in
braille and in order for that to happen we need access to all this that
information and we don't have it because popular has absolutely no support for tech pdfs
by the way thanks again friends of you know this is lots of all some
stuff related to this whole project is happening because of that campaign
now
honestly i could care less about some of these things i am totally motivated by
accessibility but i think the rest of the community should really care about tech pdfs
for because of the items on this slide you know we keep talking about you
know
are we still calling it can all my last but we're talking about getting on
tablets and smaller devices with smaller screens
and if we can a tree flow these documents on you know a little and
very phone or if i don't phone that looks like my hundred phone if you
know the whole pdf experts is gonna suck on the mobile platform so if we
have tag pdfs we could really easily do re well
then the rest is the copy paste and export if i select text from an
a beautifully market pdf that be really cool if i don't lose not just that
formatting
but you know the fact that something is a heading
the fact that something is a table if i just get taxed
i might have to reformat it or at that point i might just you know
it might not be worth that i can type fast
okay so there's hundreds in the bad news because this is on the right if
you use lee profits
it and i'll show you a screenshot and then it is like to burke easy
it's like one step to export your document to tag pdf
so that means if you care about accessibility if you want the reef well if
you want to copy and paste it's a single step but that this is like
no little supports this alex said that a bunch of research the other day about
that's it it's like and they work now but i did it's literally were just
like no it's you know sky like soup nazi on seinfeld that X P D
F for you know there is and you know better than i do some people
are interested
that in fact is possible indication of will be looks at the documents is fine
because i've so you can just have to unpack pdf you can this problem to
all the T and they usually we ought to us but pca that means that
will docks cost all the is to all the information format
i don't know we looks can supplant respond to that idea but in because of
lactic there are a lot of interesting that because after all for example in that
kind of mix
they want to i mean is in is in a lot of faculties is mandatory
product to see have to complain it pdfs so they need that they actually really
interested because we want
mathematics be accessible
something that is not happening right now in the case of it works is also
happened same you when you say that's a P D F is there is no
provision to greatest target pdf bought you can spoke to all the we develop this
great that we did show them what i mean is that well just to do
is there so they are not using that and then there a lot of tools
that great E D S but they don't have in your children in the rest
of we don't know them tutors if i would have leds thereof
tools but then find then we will ask i would be an effective because they're
this is what happened with other tools to
i was kind of funny i said you know alex can guess this list of
all the tools and it's kind of like okay all these are now may i
stop now
it's like you can stop so there may be other tools out there that do
have this support that we found one it has perfect quick support i got a
whole bunch that doubt and then alex got tired
okay i'm hoping a you can ever get like an entire dialogue and big enough
but i'm hoping you can see the one little thing that's czech that's attacked pdf
and so basically all you have to do with sleeper office and this is for
brighter calc and it impress and presumably the others you just have to choose export
to P D F from the file menu dialogue pops up czech tack pdf as
it wanna point out is that right about that czech boxers pdf slash a one
and a all standards need to have lots and lots of letters and numbers on
them i don't know why that is actually you know we could be said that
attacked pdf a skylight pdf on steroids well this P D F a one a
it's kinda like pad pdf on steroids
and what it gives your excuse me the objective is for searching and quantum plugged
re proposing document content
and it includes and i don't understand this and standards at all i would think
that be would include a rather than a including be but for some reason the
one a includes one be and that like it's put on the slide it's about
document appearance
and we're gonna come back to that point in the minute structure and hierarchy you
know other child objects you know what are the parent objects you know what it
is actually a tree
tacked pdf which we've already talked about unicode character maps to be perfectly frank id
to go read the big sixty enter to know exactly what that means and what
is expected and language specification just what like which is something
so in terms of the current status of the work that's been done
popular right now some of that's and master a some of it's in a branch
but right now the entire document structure of tact pdfs
it's been implemented for poplar works posing all of this information for popular G lab
and there's some that if you who are like popular geeks there's all these different
tools to examined documents and information about the altars and all that stuff and those
tools of been modified to expose this information so that you can
verify that attack pdf is coming out the way you expect and popular
okay we have not yet got into doing anything with this in advance that's gonna
be the next main step and i put in parentheses you know then doing this
for accessibility because again this is this is what motivated all of this work
it's not what's also about all of this work that's what motivated it and we
can't of course expose what is not in advance to assistive technologies but that's the
next priority after about some
and terms of all the support that we've done the reason i put a question
mark by the are one be part
the one be part of the standard is because as you'll see in the fake
demo screenshot that's
we're already totally now able and exposing or preserving rather of the formatting
so what are not we done every last aspect of the standard i couldn't tell
you
i again i would have to read that standard very carefully but at least functionally
i believe that we have all that implemented
that pdf again is already done word exposing the hierarchy since i'm not entirely sure
what the official definition and spec requirements are for unicode character maps i can tell
you
and we
and we are already exposing these the language if there is a language associated with
an element
so i kind of already set this particular next steps are to do the a
bedside work
expose that to assistive technologies
and figure out exactly what the status is what the standard the last thing on
their this is i think it'd be one of those patches welcome some people just
i personally lovely profits some people don't because it's is big joining at the time
slow creature there is nothing we don't have time or the expertise quite frankly the
motivation to add export support in all of the tools that are currently no but
if you sell your favourite tool on there like that the community would welcome a
patch
and information with the previous like that about
sport in the
to use in the that previous this is something like the F on that you
can problem
when we were when we were talking a lot about sort of also well we
use it is that they did he say that the well the results they were
not
your it is but i seen having target the previous for really target previous you
because one of the tools web upgrading the and the same in this a way
tools upgrade pdfs
well not with the really what is allow great impacted bps because
the P D of re a previous will not able to with a that's what
so i want one is the other reason that colours mention is that it's like
he said nobody knows what attack pdfs and that was one of the things that
motivated me you know telling you what it will be a why you should want
to make add pdfs but i would kinda argue that even if all you guys
start making packed pdfs there is actually still a lot of usage going out there
because the legal requirements you know if you are legally bound to have all of
your documents accessible euro you already know that had pdfs you are already producing them
so even if no one else is making had pdfs governments on educational institutions another
big people who could be sued for not providing documents that are accessible they're already
doing that at pdf colours to know that
okay and how going to the point of this is like that is getting because
this funny because now is them moment that we talk about
what is the world that
we have done but the three that within that do that but what so we
would like science i we imprisoned impetus
just heated up to work because we are really hard not experience are doing document
or something
we are calling about him document but just every night
so i thought that was most appropriate to go sweetie
we thought that was a perfect the best for him and we also though the
world was made by kind of you have at least a month in a piranha
beams are you was a review want to call so
i'd say and if someone is that some of the cold is right now i
did but we were repository right now we so it's up to parents in
you also in some but just some box and in fact some of the bass
were and a
quickly is this we we're where we were providing the demonstration because we were
using tools in fact the fish buttons about providing the tools with the support of
the or the target pdf and the other this at a little bar about a
meeting is it huh
right now
but in the previous weeks kind of the of was W more the call so
some of the buttons on that on that runs is already a master and is
going is and only be remote
and we have a that is life i mean we are we are the know
that and miss sorting a how i passed
how corpus is a task on light of quality strong what's easy but we want
to we added up that as light because
we wanted to and
give is probably to that is not a trivial task
and you have thought that is almost as much work import we have called on
them but we really because this is also in a important
as we are as the others
the support them pop of course that means that eventually some other a three communities
but so what communities like cute well
date is work and we say so we have
it is another example of whatever you some with all the official what communities
mm what i've this is what i'm saying i mean it's not very important how
much the lines about i mean the model sentences and i some popular three thirty
thousand nice some public really means that is not really a at work bone at
this is moment
so
S in the advertisements what we have it for what we have after so before
we have i to call pdf info that just went something in for a lot
of P D F also to cetera and then we have some tools that's great
is based on the P D F
it quit is based on the text
but was think there's without stupor and then we have another to that quick a
nice meal
in fact this is
well the reason we have that we mentioned that tool is because now event on
the look at least some people ask i would like to with the P D
F that i come to that with it being is not about what is what
we have to
and use it all cases is other people recommends to use P D F please
mail to take the pdf on which is to me a but the problem with
that is that you get a P D F without not something that you get
that it's to me it without noticed after
and this is a sample
i you at the i don't have to concede that during the pdf with here
somewhere that the stuff and at the right it's the mail that you
but before that you have work and you know it is the same at with
i'm not and formatting at all i mean okay you have the ball but engaged
me that you have you don't have the information about the kids for example if
you if you use a table
with that tool you who you will have only they can to do that they
yes
just print just without any formatting so you don't know if you aren't it is
the only in this a controller on the second
and the second column
well this is
exactly this is what i was saying i thought also a
well i think that's probably for you would be for you can just a breeze
but if you if you thing they do pdf
when we pulled is this you can see at the right that you have here
is but only text a lot right so is without any formatting at all
so i can as a so we were saying we are going to support
and sorry we as are the and countless other that report of target pdf from
popular so they are so it'd to similar to use that support so i'll be
and weighted up to call pdfs to know that
if you don't do that there is one but you can things that this the
stupor the just to the to be have can things
so i've have some
sorry some you have a chance to be pdf in for you know the two
point just trooper finally
to our problems did it you know emotive to display to here
sure
sure we have the same example
okay left you have to pdf and the right to have this communal but now
you
it meant to system to maybe so
well this is what i alluded to before it that if you remember before the
all of the formatting was lost that this gets back to that one be standard
that i need to read very carefully to see if we're not implementing any aspect
of it but this time the you know like the italics a man heading to
that carried over so there's and like i said there's an excellent chance the bulk
of thee one be standard is now implemented as well
i don't is working
and this is a screenshot of and the tool i mean and in that here
is easy if there's to see that now we have
a is true or of the document because we will have different blocks with this
H one means he there so we can see that it meant based approach but
probably it's you have to see with
with the department did you know
and we can see at
there right about of the right the screenshot that we can see this is to
prove using a at review
that show that you we have
a best and it meant that is heating and element that's a bar find them
and that's another here
we can see a next argument the sample with these items but i've got women
thing
the then the nist at this to put in fact it is what i'm saying
with the previous business well we have the tooling was suggest getting the text a
printing need what printing on is pushing it but without mundane interceptor
and this is the case of the of i think that as you can see
bits to me and maintains is that was a table we have to can do
we have all the roles and with a put this is a tools we only
half it text
you but
hello
you can see the and if you for that is a terminal the mel to
that you to maintaining the different
for all okay there's from the table
i think that
as you can see we are not doing a club time you know because we
have a really expose some these kind of presentations so we know that when you
do that we have minutes work it just depends to quest so we had this
question service as an see as i say you can
in service we are going to probably space
as limestone you contributing to tell you one so and you question
i you said one of the benefits of the tags was
for refund
and me and just
like revealing the ignorance here but i thought that one of the benefits of P
F was the it was always
like print perfect basically me view it so i was wondering like how the idea
every for fits into like the typical pdf
is case like it like the fallback mode or is it
i mean this is funny because when we were we have some for sits for
that one people website the same the same on the forums was saying was saying
that we did well not sort of all that maybe a puppy da was maintaining
that there for you
but
busily that in the end
you want to see the document don't know but there's no way of what is
the size of your screen show in what i mean is
for some local in this it's true that it doesn't make sense tutor for all
but from others
i mean it will be really strange if you need to force to share to
make a sort of this illness after don't want to see that probably
and thought there's some doubts about how to do that a how to probably that
but maybe a is having some
something similar to what it's demand has right now i mean in addition
and estimate happens and you have the roles are hard you move the mobile phone
is a about overflowing
that this
i mean i know that this
it's just train is actually say because they are you know idea of the P
D F was that but we also need to like take into account that these
that pdfs support was obvious
rescinded is less a presently you have if you have for the some yes
but they needed in the same way that there are you know that a proposal
to pdf was not was it was having something so more for really that that's
great but size then it just added to about to something like something more well
how to i don't know how to say that my documents friendly
gonna say something and that might be totally not real that like kerry as if
you a say a bullet is last
or a table and none of the if the fact that that's it actual you
know structural list or actual structural table is not known
what how was that tax cut around is it going to manage to and didn't
itself so it's not under the bullet on the second line or not and if
it's just you know where i mean i think lists items are gonna be the
the biggest use case but
my going but you know tape i'm so you know what i'm really liked so
that which is why i wear
sunglasses
i just was wondering
no if you will
i don't know we are written that actually question more
i guess i can see
we are getting
one
i just to repeat myself i think the but what instances the biggest one because
in
we can actually put these on the screen but before we did attack pdf support
people like character is strictly a character just like any in a and B S
C or whatever and wrapping that taxed will work but if we don't treat it
as an actual list item the indentations gonna be screwed up and it's gonna look
ugly
i have another question to actually
so you should a list of
of tools the
can help protect pdfs
earlier in your presentation
i was wondering if you also look that
other
consumers of P F it support take pdfs and puts the support like
for
so like the rear probably supports I P F but also like be this pdf
that yes support type you have placed in that also sort of drive adoption
something
really don't question because i think that we didn't get it
so those tools are tools that make pdfs there and support I P F
what tools that read P F support i our which class okay
we did we
but in the little world and if just what was in the pitch so we
will
it means will be the first one that will support that because okay we did
it is that because this is official where eve and so you know which will
talk about our spares but and in the rest of the world show windows are
that the stuff
and i've got we will unlock what about the right there is
the they wouldn't course
for example because of well support a spell target pdf
and at this address something that provided above is that is that is that how
it but also that
that we sorry so about be provided a planning or something like that to make
these we have to pdf
and now
because so we have these already doing that so
i mean thought in
a lot of
and government pages talking about and how the pdf should be so should be accessible
base a use accurate right that will be sort of that these target and
make sure that using that growing up right that we is a screen we are
that it it's work fine
and we there was of the pose well it is happening all is the same
the saying that means that they don't support like pdf in but for number one
of the samplers is this pdfs to do it it's to use of the word
for windows will about us is aware set of these is having the same thing
this is but it's also say is a spot to pdf but is not target
so
well we well this work with a tinge finished
we mean that up to fish or what communicate we will have one tool that
properly as well too bad pdf that is little things i want to that is
the teams that probably we target pdfs that would be more or less the same
situation that in the winter that is probably right about it
we
that the difference in terms of windows is that windows has had the ability with
it screen readers to provide access to tag pdf something to lose track but over
again kate now and that you know i know this is an accessibility talk again
that that's i can't separate myself from accessibility it's really embarrassing when people in the
work a list say you know i can use our cup with firefox and leave
are often do all this stuff and people say well what do you do to
read pdfs and some people say you know do the P D F to H
T M L that you lose all the heading information but what a lot of
people say as i bit into windows and i used jaws
so we were solving well we're actually by not having pack pdf support we're actually
sending people off to use non free software and now we're solving this problem
okay and a question sorry we are we are similar question
okay thank
what do you think it next most important thing is to accessibility
in get a but not really with you have
exactly and the next is sort of the
if i have a real that was will verify from on this where it was
not able to go to a presentation about well to the president about was able
to or worse will because the next thing for the next challenge for the so
this team will be the will answer about right now it is pi two
well it's with X in five first of them this is with X so that
made this bass will be
making sure that all other stuff works with waylon
in fact agree you have to dean is somewhat behind the other team's because as
far as the normal but down from can still people use
grading us some kind of this buddy mental bronze we the way that's about so
that means that without if you use the plants you can there is
probably is cost problem or something like that i don't know well the that if
you something to but i a list they
they will provide to the users
i way to this can so long way to and we don't have that on
it's pi so this is the next thing
is okay thank
and more question
i so i just i mean i know idea not has been video so does
when they is this is related it and to something like pdf innovations is it
could be used to something similar or if it's at a bit and related thing
so
i think that the different stuff and i think you know five anything that you
bins racial but adaptation
so
well i we supported a little bit but there was a google summer of code
project that sounds like it might not continue to do some work on that and
there's been a lot of discussion around making i don't know the specifics but around
making annotations way more cool so it sounds like they're that we have a little
support for it but we need a whole lot more but in terms of since
i've ovaries turned this talk into an accessibility talk now annotations to my knowledge has
nothing to do with tack pdfs in terms of accessibility after the annotations get implemented
we're gonna probably have to do a similar accessibility implementation
okay thank you
so i think that
no well thank you for being if you have been every question
you are